Re: Man created God: Was Re: If god exists, what created god?

Nasser Gazi (
4 May 1995 12:24:26 GMT

In article <3o86gn$jd2@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, shh@tomash.Eng.Sun.COM
>God needs man, for His existence.
>Did your doberman ever want to pray?

Perhaps you should send this question to alt.dogs.doberman

What you say about God needing man for his existence is quite true,
though. Some qualifications may be needed for some people to grasp the
significance of your statement:-

Whoever, or Whatever it is that man understands as 'God'
needs man for his existence. For if man did not exist, then this God
would not exist. This God exists only in man's 'understanding'.

However, the Essence, or the True Reality of God, which is infinite
and which exists beyond man's understanding does not need anything
to exists. And if it is this God you wish to know, then it is necessary
to transcend your understanding, and enter into your essential being
which alone has access to the infinite. To do this can be the be "the
easiest thing in the world" or impossible, or anything in between,
depending on your point of view. However, the truth remains that some
creatures *have* managed to do it.

Meister Exkhart says:
"Therefore I ask God to make me free of 'God', for my most essential
being is above 'God' in so far as we _conceive_ of God as the origin of
creatures. And so that in essence, where God is above all existence and
all multiplicity: I myself was there, there I desired myself and knew
myself according to my essence, which is eternal, and not according to my
becoming, which is in time. There I am unborn, and according to the
manner of my unbornness, shall never die. According to the manner of my
unborn nature, I have been eternal, as I am now and ever shall be. But
what I am according to my nature which was born into the world, that
shall die and turn to nothing, for it is mortal. Therefore it must decay
with time. In my birth, all things were born, and I was the cause of my
own self and of all things. And if I did not exist, then neither would
God have existed as 'God'. I am the cause of God's existence as 'God'.
But it is not neccessary for you to know this.

"When I flowed forth from God, all things said: God is. But ths cannot
make me blessed, for I know myself as creature in this. But in the
breakthrough, where I am free of my own will and of God's will and of all
his works and am free of God himself, there I am abve all creatures and
am what I shall remain now and for evermore. There I receive an impulse
which shall raise me above the angels. In this flight I receive such
great wealth that God, with all that he has as 'God; and with all his
divine works, cannot satisfy me, for the consequence of this breakthrough
is that God and I become one. Then I am what I have once been, and I
neither increase nor decrease, but am an immovable cause which moves all
things. God can find no place in us then, for with this Poverty we attain
that which we have eternally been and shall forever remain. Here God is
one with our spirit and this is poverty in its ultimate form.

"Whoever does not understand these words should not be troubled. For as
long as someone is not themselves akin to this truth, they will not
understand my words, since this is and unconcealed Truth which has come
directly from the heart of God.

"That we may live in such a way that we have eternal knowledge of this,
so help us God. Amen"

-Meister Eckhart, (trans.Oliver Davies).

"Whatever can be said about the Tao is not the Tao" - Lao Tzu