Re: The Flat Earth? - Conclusion

Matthew Scott (
3 Jul 1995 17:59:46 GMT (Clint Brome) writes:

>>I've been watching this thread, and figure it's time to put in 2 cents for the
>>fun of it. You will notice, that the old ladie's answer to gods question was
>>not "please send my bundle home so that I can use it" She asked only very little
>>of God.. that he help her to carry her own load in a moment when her strength was
>>too little. This is exactly what our relationship with God should reflect. We
>>accomplish what we can with our own power. If there is something that is particularly
> This sounds alot like "God helps those who help themselves."
>I've always taken this to be a statement of the underlying Agnosticism in our
>society -- i.e. Santa Claus exists, but only gives presents to the kids whose
>parents go out and buy them -- but Santa Claus gives them the strength.
> This is the ultimate cop-out, and the ultimate example of Begging the Question.

You're right, it sounds like a cop out, but I can't help it. That's just the
way it is (not so exactly as you you mention merely similar) God does do a lot
to help his children. He sends prophets and teachers, scriptures, his son, and his
spirit...and now and again when the faith and the necessity are there a few miracles.
If you think God sends too few teachers, maybe you should wonder why you don't bother
learning from the ones that are there. There are teachers enough for the students
who are willing to learn. Keep in mind, the ultimate goal is that the people
are capable of personally maintaining a Kingdom like Gods 99% all on their own.
And keep in mind how often children don't believe what parents say until they
have their own personal experiences. I saw my brother slap his daughters hands
four or five times as she tried to poke a nail into an outlet. Well, eventually he
wasn't there, and she poked it in anyway. At last she understood! and Sometimes
that's just what it takes.... or do you make a habit of listening to God and doing
what he says. The germans certainly didn't at the time of ausschwitz, and I bet
you discover on your own plenty that you could have just read in the scriptures.

>>important, but we can not manage it alone, it is time to ask for help. Not in that
>>God makes everything easy for us, just possible. First of all, it's not really
>>a particularly important question (in the large scheme of things) what the distance
>>to the stars in question are. Second, our capability to measure this distance is
>>adequate. Therefore, it is by no means time to expect an emergency message from
>>God about the distance to a star. Keep in mind that God is a parent with a lot of
>>responsibilities. If he spent his time answering such relatively insignificant
>>questions, his kingdom would surely fail because there wouldn't be enough strength
>>left to answer the really important ones... like how might people manage to get along

> Sorry, but, I thought God was Omnipotent?

Nycian creed was always wrong. It never came from God in the first place.
It was just the non unanamous result of a catholic voting procedure. God does
not personally inspect and control every quantum state. If he did, he would just
be nature itsself. He has a lot of power, but he didn't get it by squandering it.
Read the parable of the talents and you'll discover that God is something of
a business man when it comes to giving and getting. Maybe that's because he can't
afford the habit of giving his power away for garbage. Maybe he eventually
has to get back more than he gave in order to defeat the natural principle of
dissipation. Maybe the God you imagine is nonfunctional, and therefore does not
exist. Saying that God is omnipotant (in the nycian creed manner) means that
he also controls the devil, therefore he is not all good. Put a pair of glasses
on and re-examine your picture of God.

>>with eachother and act as one. We develope ourselves when we practice our skills.
>>This is Gods desire. If you want God to answer your question, then you'll have
>>to wait until he feels that it is important for you to know, and that the personal
>>developement that you might acquire by seeking the answer yourself is
>>relatively insignificant. As a dad, I don't appreciate it when children come and
>>interrupt me every five minutes to open the door, or to put butter on their bread,
>>or to post guard in their rooms to make sure no one borrows their clothes. My life

> Therefore, you teach them how to open the door, and put butter their own
>bread, and help them understand the chances of someone stealing their clothes.
>You distinctly do not spend the first twenty years of their life hiding from them
>and watching them stumble around completely on their own. Note that helping them
>every once in a while from hiding (buttering bread for them while they aren't
>lookin) does not comprise a loving parenthood. Any parent who does this is sick.

Thank you very much, and that's just what God does. He teaches Do we learn?
When we don't, you can imagine what the natural consequences can be. Or did
God teach the germans to shoot millions of jews?

>>consists of more important matters, and my children develope in that they begin to
>>manage their own concerns. Do you catch the drift? I don't consider swami to
>>be any sort of super authority. I think he talks too imprecisely, and I doubt
>>he could answer a lot of significant religious questions like..where does God come
>>from and why should he exist? He would probably give the same old "we mortals are
>>just too puny to understand such great truthes". On the other hand, he seems to
>>have a few well screwed bolts even if others are a little loose.