Re: AAT Theory

Clara N. Fitzgerald (
22 Sep 1995 16:01:45 GMT (J. Moore) writes:

>Tk> Ventral-ventral sex is also not a "consequence of aquatic life".
Ventro-ventral. It is a very vulnerable position, though.
Orangutans have resorted to this approach due to their weight
and arboreal habits, but it sounds like a nerve-wracking process,
with the female responding initially is if to an attack. Do we
have any well-constructed theory of the social environment of
early hominids? Bonobos seem to have tightly bonded, easygoing
groups for reassurance.

>Tk> References to support streamlining?? Gee.. OK.. Just pick up any book
>Tk> that has a picture of an ape or chimp and a picture of a human being and
>Tk> tell me which one you think is more streamlined. I would think that
>Tk> there are thousands of books that fall into this category.

>Let's see: humans have big heads and broad shoulders, long legs
>(which create drag -- that's why aquatic mammals have short limbs);
They do have long tails, so length does not necessarily equal
drag. In fact, racing sculls are faster if longer; starting with
a tailess ape, I'm not sure what would be expected.
>guess apes would be more streamlined (gibbons especially). Now
>where's your reference to the contrary?
Try swimming in a t-shirt sometime. When do we suppose that
humans began to grow long head hair?

>Then you were going to post...
>JM> >information about incidents where land predators had killed
>JM> >hundreds of well-armed humans during a single night. The
Whatever they were well-armed against, it wasn't crocodiles.

>Tk> You would trying to paint the
>Tk> crocodile as some kind of extraordinary predator when in fact
>Tk> there are plenty of land based predators that are
>Tk> equally as efficient at killing prey, if not more efficient.

>Name one that, like crocodiles, doesn't respond to bluff and
>threat. Name one that, like crocodiles, grabs an animal and
>doesn't let go, even when being "repeatedly stabbed with spears
>or knives, beaten with sticks, pelted with stones, or had sticks
>rammed down their gullets in order to prise the human victims
>from their jaws...but to no avail".
Wolverine. It might not kill you, but it would slow you down
and leave you vulnerable to other things. {I'm sorry, but my only
reference for this is _The Gods Must Be Crazy II_.}

>Tk> Jim, just because there is an aquatic predator in Africa at the same
>Tk> time the AAT is supposed to have happened does not discount the entire
>Tk> theory. I think this is a weak argument. There
>Tk> are predators everywhere.
>Tk> Troy Kelley

>like early hominids (similar size, physical abilities, swimming
>speed [I'll give them the [unlikely] speed of the fastest Olympic
>swimmers: 5.1048 mph], spends 4-8 hours a day up in 3-4 feet of
Remember that in some cases you don't have to outrun the predators;
you just have to outrun the guy next to you.
>water, and which reproduces as slowly as do chimps and humans who
>gather/hunt today). The AAT has consistently side-stepped this
Manatees and dugongs are large, slow-moving poorly equipped with
weaponry, and reproduce more slowly than humans can (1 offspring per
3-5 years). They live along the southern shore of both continents
(well, manatees in New World, dugongs in old).