Re: Evolutionary Purpose of Female Orgasm
J. Moore (j#d#.moore@canrem.com)
Sat, 14 Oct 95 17:58:00 -0500
My> In article <60.13695.3724.0N1F7C55@canrem.com>,
My> J. Moore <j#d#.moore@canrem.com> wrote:
My> >
My> >My> As may have been pointed out earlier in this thread, the female
My> >My> "upsucks" the pool of sperm in the upper vagina during female
My> >My> uterine muscle contractions during her orgasm.
My> ><snip>
My> >
My> >But of course actual measurements, as opposed to idle speculation,
My> >demonstrate that uterine contractions during orgasm are explusive
My> >rather than providing suction.
My> >There's one of theose "ugly fact" thingies again...
My> It's always nice to see the calmer, unbiased heads prevail, Jimbo. ;)
My> Timing counts; when a woman orgasms, relative to when a male does,
My> determines whether an orgasm is "high sperm retention" or low retention.
My> (See the literature, for goodness sake: Baker and Bellis 1993. Anim.
My> Behav., 46: 887-909.)
My> Interestingly for your assertion, non-orgasmic copulations result in the
My> greatest flowback (sperm expulsion).
My statement had nothing whatsoever to do with flowback and sperm
expulsion. Sperm is not deposited in the uterus, after all. Your
previous statement, that female uterine muscle contractions during
her orgasm provide suction, is incorrect, and that is what I
pointed out. Uterine contractions during orgasm do aid in sperm
transport, but not in the manner you suggest; the contractions are
expulsive.
In fact, none of the following points you made, as posted by
Jim Kohl, are contradicted by my statement. (I'm afraid if you are
going to see every correction as an attack on all you write, you're
never gonna get anywhere in science).
>From Jim Kohl's post:
mycol1@unm.edu cites:
Baker and Bellis (1993) Anim. Behavior, 46: 887-909
and among other things says that:
(1) Female orgasms led to high levels of sperm retention.
(2) Non-orgasmic sex leads to significantly greater flow-back
(rejection) of sperm.
(3) Sperm retention from one orgasmic sexual encounter led to
lower sperm retention for up to eight days later.
Jim Kohl also cites:
Bellis and Baker (1991) Anim. Behavior, 40: 997-999
who found that extra-pair copulations in humans peak at mid-cycle
There are also articles indicating that both female-initiated sex
and female sexual arousal also peak at midcycle.
My> I've regretted requesting citations from you in the past,
The only such request I can remember would be the time you asked
me to summarise the last 150 years of debate and reaction to
debate on the subject of sexual selection... That would make
for a rather lengthy book, and I thought that was a little too
much to ask of an online post, frankly.
My> but I just have to ask: Please post your refs refuting my above
My> statements.
My> Bryant
Why do I feel you really don't want to know? Wait, don't answer
yet; it's because, in my experience with you so far, you take
every correction or point of additional info offered by me as
an attack on all you write, even when it doesn't contradict what
you've written. I guess I rub you the wrong way, but if you're
gonna try to do science, you can't be so sensitive.
If you're a halfway decent researcher, you have the articles in
your hands (there aren't really THAT many on the subject). They
support the basic premise you are seeking to support, that female
orgasm is of evolutionary value, but they show that this does not
happen via the mechanism you are suggesting. I'm not gonna tell
you which ones they are because I don't like your attitude. Go
ahead and write your article and shoot yourself in the foot by
getting it wrong; I won't try to stop you again.
Jim Moore (j#d#.moore@canrem.com)
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