Re: ACLU may sue NM Board of Education (was Re: Creationists win...)
John Hart (jhart@goodnet.com)
Fri, 06 Sep 1996 01:02:42 +0000
>From: fictitious@alias.incognito.myob (ima pseudonym)
>
>In article <50jcsr$ads@news.goodnet.com>, jhart@goodnet.com says..
>
>>The evolutionist mind set does not allow a person to gain knowledge of any
>>theory but evolution.
>
>What arguments or evidence could change your own mind on this issue?
>
None, The existence of the Creator has been proved, to my satisfaction.
Without faith, it would have been impossible to see the proof.
>
>>If you want to understand Creation, Create a model of a self evolving
>>reality that could be simulated on a computer, and then prove that it could
>>have come about by chance.
>
>Evolution doesn't require this sort of "chance", and besides it seems you're
>attacking the concept of abiogenesis & not evolution per se.
>
Let me rephrase my statement.
If you want to understand Creation, Create a model of a self evolving
reality, that could be simulated on a computer, and then show how
the program could come into existence, absent intelligent design.
>From: bgrubb@acca.nmsu.edu (Bruce L Grubb)
>
>In article <50jcsr$ads@news.goodnet.com>, jhart@goodnet.com (J Hart) wrote:
>
><clip>
>
>> The evolutionist mind set does not allow a person to gain
>> knowledge of any theory but evolution.
>
>Even if this was true why does it eliminate Creationism?
Evolutionism and Creationism are opposing philosophies.
A person can not follow two leaders,
a leader can not take two paths.
Pieces that form a round object,
will not fill a square hole.
>
>> Acts of the ignorant in support of their false belief always tend to center
>> around preventing alternate points of view from being taught or considered.
>>
>> Evolutionist are probably the largest group of closed minded people on the
>> planet today.
>
>Untrue. Creationism is the discarded theory <trim>
Discarded by evolutionists, prohibited by evolutionists,
replaced by a mindless theory of origin, without purpose.
>
><trim>
>
>Evolution can be broken down into the following types {in roughly their
>order of creation}:
>
>Progressive evolution:
>
>Lamarckian evolution:
>
>Darwinian evolution:
>
>'Social Darwinism'. The unified theory of evolution.
>
>Lysenko Evolution:
>
>Punctuated Equilibrium Evolution:
> <misc. clips>
>
>We teach our kids these (limited, inaccurate, false) models
>because they are the easiest to _show_ to the kids
>rather than the "more" accurate (models).
Precisely, the same as Creationists do. We teach our children
a simple model of creation, in a language they can understand
so they might learn to love and serve God in this world,
and gain eternal life in the next.
Evolutionist easily destroy that simple model, with little or no
understanding of the hidden truth within it. Then they build the sand
castles of evolution using knowledge so limited and finite, as to be
meaningless, and then force our children to "learn" it as if it were
absolutely true.
Evolutionists can not accept children being exposed to the slightest
hint that we might be created. They fear young minds might be corrupted
by thoughts of God. I can not think what leads to this conclusion when
the most important thing people can learn is to follow God's laws, and
to become a loving and moral people.
Why have we forbidden teaching anything about God in our schools, and
then hired more and more police, and built more and more prisons, to
hold the ever increasing number of immoral people? If this isn't
gross stupidity, what is it?
>
>
>From: swatson@bnr.ca (Stephen Watson)
>
>Bruce L Grubb <bgrubb@acca.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>[..........]
>>Creationists seem to equate 'evolution' with Darwinian evolution.
>
>Unfortunately, this is not true.
>ICR (propaganda) asserts the existence of "Evolutionary Philosophy",
>a grand over-arching metaphysical principle of change and development.
><clip>
When the ACLU sues to prevent student exposure to Creationists theories.
When large numbers of evolutionists claim "evolution is a fact".
When scientists have already started production of human beings.
(they think they can do better than the mindless evolutionary
process they believe made us, but can they do better than God?
Also what will the purpose of life, evolve into, under the guidance
of the new reproductive bureaucracies, that will surely follow)
When the word "evolution" takes on the flavor or a mantra on
most PBS science shows.
When the Biblical tales, that many believe were inspired by God,
are blindly, ridiculed and rejected, by evolutionists.
How can they be faulted for their "misconception". that Evolutionism
is at war with Creationism?
>
>
>From: david.jensen@mpcug.com (David Jensen)
>
>On 4 Sep 1996 07:59:23 GMT, jhart@goodnet.com (J Hart) wrote:
>
>>The evolutionist mind set does not allow a person to gain knowledge of any
>>theory but evolution.
>
>Please explain your reasoning.
A frame of reference is like the border of a jigsaw puzzle, if it's
wrong, the puzzle can not be assembled. Information that supports ones
belief is easily accepted and remembered; information that contradicts,
is easily dismissed and forgotten. Creationism and Evolutionism are
opposites, one can not go in two directions at once.
>
>>Acts of the ignorant in support of their false belief always tend to center
>>around preventing alternate points of view from being taught or considered.
>
>What alternative is available. If there is an alternative, what is the
>evidence for it?
The alternate, is to keep an open mind.
The evidence for Creation is overwhelming, it is the blindness
of selfishness that keeps it hidden. We are not the measure of
all things, little more than grains of sand in the oceans of
infinity.
>
>
>>Evolutionist are probably the largest group of closed minded people on the
>>planet today.
>
>I believe that the problem is that your pet theory has no evidence.
>Scientists require evidence to support a theory. Scientists are quite
>rigorous (close minded in your world) about what science is. Your
>non-science will not make the cut.
Worship of science, will bring no understanding, because science is
nothing more than a tool. Worship the living God, and you will be in
harmony, with the One who really knows, how the world is made. Only
then do you have a chance of finding out what is really true.
>
>
>>If you want to understand Creation, Create a model of a self evolving
>>reality that could be simulated on a computer, and then prove that it could
>>have come about by chance.
>
>
>Its coming.
If people put enough time and thought into anything progress will be
made. If everyone sits around and waits for "it" to evolve, nothing
will come.
>
>By the way, do not delude yourself into believing that the failure of a
>current theory of evolution will be a victory for creation.
>
>Creation has already failed as a theory.
>
>There is no theory, none.
>Screaming louder will not make this story come true.
Nor will repetition.
Evolutionism fails because it
removes the concept of mind
from a process that comes from
the mind of God.
>
>The myths of creation were told (recorded?)
>
>
>From: lybanon@snaps.nrlssc.navy.mil (Matthew Lybanon)
>
>david.jensen@mpcug.com (David Jensen) writes:
>
>> >If you want to understand Creation, Create a model of a self evolving
>> >reality that could be simulated on a computer, and then prove that it could
>> >have come about by chance.
>>
>> Its coming.
>
>
> David E. Goldberg, _Genetic Algorithms in Search, Optimization,
>and Machine Learning_, Addison-Wesley, 1989 (ISBN 0-201-15767-5) would
>be a good place to start learning about "a model of a self evolving
>reality that could be simulated on a computer ..." Genetic algorithms
>are a well-established branch of mathematics and computer science.
>They are useful in solving some types of problems. They were not
>invented to "prove" or "disprove" the theory of evolution in biology;
>the name comes from the fact that many of the ideas of genetic
>algorithms are analogous to some ideas in evolutionary theory. But the
>operations carried out in genetic algorithms meet the criteria demanded
>by the first poster.
Not quite but they are on the right track.
When theories compete, elegance, and simplicity, are used to
choose between them. What is more plausible that the complete
structure of the universe, from the infinitesimal to the
infinite, just happens to exist, or that the universe was
created by a conscious being that resides in a
far less complex structure, that could be a simple as
a Turing Machine?
There is something much more important than a theoretical
understanding of the process of Creation, It is how much love do we
have for what made us be. This question we answer by how we live
our lives. Christians believe, the world was created by an
intelligent being for a reason, and the reason is Love. Love
is the cause of life, Love is the meaning in life, and Love is the
substance of God's world.
>From: David Hultgren <hard.to@plea.se>
>
>J Hart wrote:
>
>> The evolutionist mind set does not allow a person to gain knowledge of any
>> theory but evolution.
>>
>
>Sure does, You see...
>
><clip>
>
>...nobody but scientifically uneducated persons believe in
>(Creation) anymore.
>
Yes, I see...
>> If you want to understand Creation, Create a model of a self evolving
>> reality that could be simulated on a computer, and then prove that it could
>> have come about by chance.
>>
>
>Already done, they are many examples, most famous is probably "Tierra"
>and "Amoeba". According to Your statement above, Do You admit that
>You are wrong now?
You are joking, of course?
>
>
>From: bds@ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce Scott TOK )
>
>J Hart (jhart@goodnet.com) wrote:
>
>
>: If you want to understand Creation, Create a model of a self evolving
>: reality that could be simulated on a computer, and then prove that it could
>: have come about by chance.
>
>
>This phrase, 'come about by chance', should not enter any discussion of
>evolution, because evolution is not a random phenomenon. You need to
>understand that before you can contribute in a useful way.
Random selection?
Random Mutations?
If not random, how about mindless?
Look at the structure that causes us to be.
List all the steps in your mind.
Consider one error, one change
and our chance to exist
is gone.
Think about it.
J Hart
To take the lives of others,
in states that we roam,
can not be justified,
sets our fate in stone.
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