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Re: Speciation - how do you know?
Stephen Barnard (steve@megafauna.com)
Sun, 06 Oct 1996 17:40:10 -0800
Paul Crowley wrote:
>
> In article <3257D73F.73A7@megafauna.com>
> steve@megafauna.com "Stephen Barnard" writes:
>
> > First, you present the "fact" that there were no lions in Europe as
> > evidence that Neanderthals didn't hunt. Then, when someone points out
> > that there *were* lions in Europe, you claim that as *conclusive*
> > evidence that Neanderthals didn't hunt.
>
> The basic point is that Neanderthals do not have the sort of
> anatomy we expect to see in hunters. Nor do they seem to have
> any of the attributes we associate with predators.
>
> I did say AFAIK (as far as I knew) lions had not got to Europe.
> I regarded this as evidence that it was not good hunting ground
> so how could an apparently much inferior predator make out?
> On being told lions were, in fact, common in Europe, much the
> same question applies -- only now more strongly.
>
The point is, Paul, that you present both the absence of lions in
Eurpope and the presence of lions in Europe as *prima facie* evidence
that Neaderthals didn't hunt. You must see the gross inconsistency in
this argument, because I believe that you are a logical, reasoning human
being. You *have* to admit, to retain any credibility at all, that
either one or both of your arguments are incorrect.
> > BTW, you seem to think that the existence of one predator precludes the
> > existence of any others. That's rather difficult to believe given that
> > in Africa lions, leopards, cheetahs, hyenas, and wild dogs coexist and
> > prey on roughly the same species.
>
> They each have a technique, a distinct role or niche - and mostly
> at night. Cheetahs are the only purely diurnal one in your list
> and they ultilise camouflage, great speed, overwhelming power and
> killing ability. Those who believe that Neanderthals could hunt
> should be able to present some reasonable account of the niche they
> occupied. It has to be a diurnal one. So the prey could see them
> coming; or did they crawl along the ground? Modern hominids have
> a remarkably poor sense of smell; were Neanderthals an exception?
> Predators are built for endurance, speed or both (check your list);
> how did Neanderthals escape this rule?
>
> How about an attempt to be constructive?
Pointing out a gross inconsistency in your logic (an inconsistency at
the level of a howler) is constructive.
So why is it impossible that Neanderthals established a hunting niche
for themselves? What assets could they bring to the table? Far
superior intelligence. Coordinated, cooperative technique. Long-range
planning. Possibly language. Possibly most important, cultural
adaptation over centuries, passing down effective hunting techniques
from generation to generation. An extremely robust physique by our
standards.
Steve Barnard
Steve Barnard
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