Re: lions, chimps and sticks

David L Burkhead (r3dlb1@dax.cc.uakron.edu)
9 Oct 1995 02:44:11 GMT

In article <hubey.813000778@pegasus.montclair.edu> hubey@pegasus.montclair.edu (H. M. Hubey) writes:
>r3dlb1@dax.cc.uakron.edu (David L Burkhead ) writes:
>
>> Your statement is wrong, since, as others have shown, they _do_
>>survive along with lions. Sunce they do, obviously they can. QED.
>>Thus, any conclusions drawn on the supposition that they cannot are invalid.
>
>They don't inhabit the same environment.

Actually, according to one of the other posters, there _is_
overlap in ranges. Ergo, for at least part of their range they _do_
inhabit the same environment.

>But then we have all survived along with lions, tigers,
>crocodiles, etc. We just stay away from them :-)..

Correct wrt crocodiles. In the case of lions and tigers we
mostly survive "along with" them by making _them_ stay away from _us_.

>>at them with the stick. Your "counter" is invalid because the
>>_defender_ has no choice. The attacker, however, does. One more to
>>the growing list of non-sequitors.
>It's a simple one. Neither you, nor any group of like minded
>colleagues would be thinking so glibly or cavalierly if you
>had to think of yourself in the situation of being forced to
>fight off lions. Just imagine you're about 4 feet or smaller,
>with a much smaller brain/intelligence and tell me how you'd
>survive lion, hyena, or wild dog attacks.

Just imagine you're facing a _dozen_ chimp sized and chimp
strength primates (and chimps have several times the strength of a
man--even though they are physically smaller), that surround you and
pelt you with rocks, sticks, and assorted blunt objects. Face one and
another hits you from behind. _And_, they're hitting you _before_ you
come to within claw/tooth range. This is something totally out of
your experience with "prey" animals. Nothing else can hit you from
ten feet away. And, well, there _is_ easier prey out there. Prey that
doesn't gang up on you, prey that doesn't hit you before you're able
to hit it.

>>And it's _certainly_ not true for groups of chimpanzees. Most
>>predators leave them strictly _alone_. Perhaps they know something
>>you don't?
>
>That's probably because they live in areas where the predators
>are single predators, i.e. leopards.

Except, as has been noted, Chimpanzees _do_ share range with the
animals you keep listing as being something they are unable to deal
with. So they obviously _do_ deal with them. Thus, your statement
is, once again, false.

David L. Burkhead
r3dlb1@dax.cc.uakron.edu
d.l.burk@ix.netcom.com

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