Re: Atlantis - The Lost Continent

bstudio@mcs.net
Thu, 18 Jul 96 12:59:44 PDT

In Article<NEWTNews.837711833.1925.bstudio@bstudio.mcs.net>, <bstudio@mcs.net> write:
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> Subject: Re: Atlantis - The Lost Continent
> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 96 10:32:24 PDT
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> In Article<31ECF592.9BD@tip.nl>, <paul.smith@tip.nl> write:
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> > From: Paul Smith <paul.smith@tip.nl>
> > Subject: Re: Atlantis - The Lost Continent
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> > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:15:46 GMT
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> >
> > Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. wrote:
> > >
> > > Paul Smith <paul.smith@tip.nl> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thomas R. Holtz, Jr. wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those interested in Atlantis: please, Please, PLEASE reread Plato
> > > > > > youself (Penguin Books has translation of the Timeaus and Criteaus
> > > > > > (horrible misspellings, my copies are at home))!! There is a LOT of
> > > > > > misinformation on the subject, perpetuated by Atlantologists, out there.
> > >
> > > > Assuming that Plato wasn't telling a complete pack of lies (and remember that he was
> > > > primarily concerned with telling a moral fable about the virtues of aristocracy rather
> > > > than reporting fact), the *legend* of Atlantis was Egyptian. How did Egyptians get an
> > > > idea about a lost sunken city?
> > >
> > > Actually, I was hoping that people would bother to read Plato and find
> > > out for themselves that he was telling, while not a complete pack of
> > > lies, a tale made up entirely by him to prove his own points.
> > >
> > > Right before the Timeaus, the question is asked "What would a society
> > > run by these philosopher-kings be like?". The Timeaus takes it up
> > > "Well, my grandpa Solon heard this story from his granpa Solon on
> > > Children's Day (can't remember the original Greek, but that's how it
> > > translates: in any case, a day traditionally associated with the telling
> > > of tall tales) who heard it whilst in Egypt."
> > >
> > > And, what do you know? It discusses live under philosopher-kings whose
> > > societies match point for point exactly those suggested earlier in the
> > > Dialogues. Hmmmm...
> > >
> > > Also, the Atlantologists never seem to mention Proto-Athens, the main
> > > combatant agains Atlantis in its decline, located on the exact same
> > > spot that Hellenistic Athens occupied. Funny, maybe that's because we
> > > know the archeology of Athens, and there ain't any such city there? Or
> > > is it they never bothered to read Plato so they don't know what an important
> > > part of the story (not myth, since it wasn't part of the religion; not
> > > legend, since it doesn't deal with heroes or heroics) of Atlantis?
> > >
> > > While many cultures have stories of global floods (the Mediterranean/
> > > Mesopotamian almost always being caused by the Storm God upset with the
> > > corruption, uncleanliness, or sometimes just the noise of humanity) and
> > > vanished cities, there are no records from Egyptian or other Mediterranean
> > > or Mesopotamian writings documenting the presence of a Eurasiatic superpower
> > > 9000 years before Plato's time (part of the story of Atlantis is that
> > > it had conquered all powers in the known world save proto-Athens and
> > > its holdings). Sure, some might yet be found, or physical evidence to
> > > support it, but none have yet been found, although stone tools and pottery
> > > from that interval are known in the region.
> > >
> > > Why should just some aspects of the Atlantis story be true (according
> > > to Atlantologists), but others (proto-Athens, timing, dominance of the
> > > Mediterranean/Mesopotamian world) which are clearly indicated in the story
> > > be inventions? Why is there no pre-Platonic record of Atlantis in even
> > > Greek writing?
> > >
> > > One distinct possibility is Plato made it up, as a rhetorical device to
> > > discuss his points earlier in the Dialogue, with a clear indication (at
> > > least to his contemporaries) that this is an invention at the story's
> > > start. Of course, to some it is more appealing that scientists don't
> > > know what they're talking about...
> > >
> > > Take care, and hope you weren't bored.
> >
> > Couldn't agree more. Infact there's no archaeological evidence /at all/
> > for civilisation at that early date anywhere in the world and not just in
> > the Mediterranian. Stone makes the specific suggestion that Plato made up
> > (or adapted) the Atlantis story to counter the Athenian foundation myth
> > (the one about Theseus), which, according to Stone, promoted the virtues
> > of democracy and this, as you know, wasn't Plato's favourite system of
> > government. My point was that even if the story predated Plato (no
> > surviving evidence for this) you wouldn't need to assume that an actual
> > maritime superpower in the region was inspiration for it. Storytellers
> > don't need such ready-made sources.
> >
> > Groetjes,
> >
> > Paul Smith.
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Paul Smith & Bea Hemmen, De Gildekamp 21-47, 6545KE,
> > Nijmegen, The Netherlands.
> > Tel: 024-3782438, E-mail: paul.smith@tip.nl
> > "God save us from our naughtiness" 16th C. English Prayer
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Paul,
>
> I have a hard time understanding all this anti Atlantis stuff. The fact is
> there is plenty of hard evidence that Atlantis, or some superpower, existed
> earlier than Plato.
>
> The Pyramids are one. It's hard to imagine that the first men out of the
> shell decided to pile up that much stone on just the spur of the moment.
>
> You have to consider all the archaeological evidence scattered around the
> Atlantic. In the Yucatan Peninsula, in Mexico etc. This may not been
> a single nation but it is evidence of advanced thinking before Plato.
>
> My favorite though, is the Peri Reis map. I have seen a lot of
misinformation
> about this map but it is certainly evidence of early existance. I have
written
> a piece on this map and it can be found at http://www.mcs.net/~bstudi/
>
> This is one of my favorite subjects.
>
> Think Positive
>
> Norb
>
correction: Norb's Atlantis Story can be found on http://www.mcs.net/~bstudio/

Norb again, thanks