Re: Hodenausaunee Egalitarianism (was: Re: WANTED: A good

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Your final question is the one t o which I don't have the answer, and
which I asked you to answer. You have not yet done this, but don't
bother. I made the mistake of trying to have a civilized dialogue with
you, even though I sensed immediately your feminist-baiting. You can look
up the references under the names you are interested in, but I will not
respond to further communications from you. Ruby Rohrlich

On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, thomas w kavanagh wrote:

> If you would read down through the posts and reposts, appended to all this
> correspondence, you will see that my original question to you was to
> explain your view that the Hodenausaunee were "egalitarian,"
> which you said you had taught and written about. I included in that
> question the observation, obtained from the basic literature
> (Morgan, Parker, Fenton, Tooker) that by Fried's technical definition,
> the Hodenausaunee, at least in the formal political aspects of the
> League, were not egalitarian. In your answer you said you could "not
> answer my question," and then asked me to answer my own question. To me,
> that is turning it around. (BTW, in phrasing my original question the way
> I did, I answered it: the Hodenausaunee were/are not "egalitarian." I
> asked you to justify your position.)
>
> I then asked you for references to your (or Dr. Leacock's) writings on the
> subject of Hodenausaunee egalitarianism, which you claim to have written
> and taught about. Only insofar as I asked you to specify the basis for
> your anthropological analysis of the Hodenausaunee as egalitarian have I
> "veered to another subject" away from an historical analysis of "the first
> feminists and the Iroquois women."
> *-*-*-*-*-*-
> On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Ruby Rohrlich wrote:
>
> > You posed a question, to which I said I didn't know the answer, and asked
> > you to give the answer. How is that "turning it around"? Now, you have
> > veered to another sub ject, and want references. This is a far cry from
> > my original posting ab out Elaine Rapping's article in ON THE ISSUES
> > about the close relationships between the first feminists and the
> > Iroquois women. Ruby Rohrlich
> >
> > On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, thomas w kavanagh wrote:
> >
> > > Come on now, don't turn it around. All I asked was, since you cite
> > > yourself as having written on the subject, how you consider the
> > > Hodenausaunee "egalitarian." All I know on the subject is what I read
> > > [BTW, I am interested in reading you article, or Dr. Leacock on the
> > > subject, can you give me a reference?] and by applying Fried's definition,
> > > they didn't seem to qualify. If you--and Morgan?-- are using another,
> > > perhaps looser definition of the term, what is it? Has there been any more
> > > recent examination of the subject?
> > >
> > > tk
> > >
> > > On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Ruby Rohrlich wrote:
> > >
> > > > My knowledge of the Hodenausaunee seems not to be as extensive as yours
> > > > seems to be, for I cannot answer your question, but I would be interested
> > > > in your answer. However, the
> > > > egalitarianism of the League of the Iroquois has been asserted by many
> > > > anthropologists, beginning with Lewis Henry Morgan. Ruby Rohrlich
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, thomas w kavanagh wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Ruby Rohrlich wrote:
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Although some anthropologists - Judith Brown, Eleanor
> > > > > > Leacock and I -- have taught and written about the egalitarianism of
> > > > > > American Indians, particularly the Iroquois Confederacy
> > > > > <unsnip>
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested in how you consider the Hodenausaunee "egalitarian." As
> > > > > defined by Fried, an egalitarian society is one which "there are as many
> > > > > positions of prestige in any given age-sex grade as there are persons
> > > > > capable of filling them" (1967:33). This would seem not to apply to the
> > > > > Hodenausaunee, or at least to the formal political aspects of the
> > > > > "League," in which only certain specific clans and lineages in those clans
> > > > > had/have control of the council chief positions. Moreover, the Tuscarora
> > > > > have no representation in the formal councils. In what ways does the Clan
> > > > > Mother of a non-represented clan have the kind of authority that a
> > > > > represented Clan Mother has?
> > > > > tk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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