Re: Homosexuality: male & female

Yousuf Khan (
Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:37:45 GMT

On 24 Sep 1996 09:10:31 -0600, (Bryant) wrote:

>>What's this about bone asymmetry and fingerprints? Last message you were
>>mentioning something about birth order in males, and hip-to-waste ratios in

>There's a significant relationship between birth order and asymmetry, and
>between (fingerprint) asymmetry and homosexuality in males. Both suggest
>developmental integrity is perturbed prenatally.

I see, it seems an interesting concept, but I fail to see any connection
between behaviour and fingerprint patterns. It would require some proof,
like percentages of correlation. Then I'd be convinced that there might be
some connection, even if the explanation relating the two phenomenon were
not yet known.

>>What possible correlations can fingerprints and bone shapes have with
>>homosexuality? I'm starting to get visions of measuring bumps on people's

>Heh. Yep: The New Anthropometry. Not really, though. Bilateral FA
>(Fluctuating Asymmetry) studies are well established as a sensitive and
>reliable indicator of developmental stress. There's a nice intro to the
>field in the 1986 Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics, if you're
>interested, by Palmer and Strobeck.

Well, to be honest with you, no, I'm not interested in reading through
their entire paper just to get the crux of the idea. Can you provide it
yourself, since you've already read it?

>Likewise, waist-to-hip ratio is an accurate cue of female hormonal
>profiles (and fecundity, and so perhaps fertility).

>Unlike phrenological measures, FA and WHR are tied to physiological
>reality, and are not deterministic. Finding that an individual has low
>FA (high developmental integrity) does not mean that he's destined to be
>a violent criminal, for instance. On a population level, however, we did
>find that men with low FA are more prone to physically assault others to
>protect their status.

Well, I don't think phrenology was meant to be deterministic either, at
least not originally. It just became that way after the mass media heard
about it.

>>>Three, I think, works fine for adult sexualities. I've been avoiding the
>>>whole issue of folks who like barnyard animals and children.
>>Wouldn't work, even excluding barnyard animal lovers. You'll quickly find
>>that bisexuals come in so many varieties that they themselves can't even
>>recognize each other. Every individual bisexual seems to have such a
>>different level of preference for each gender that only certain stimuli
>>will attract them about each type of sexual activity.

>So, within bisexual populations, there seems indeed to be a continuum of
>preferences. Little wonder, then, that bisexuals have such a difficult
>time understanding the strict orientations of homosexuals and
>heterosexuals, eh?

Or possibly, heterosexuality and homosexuality could just be the two
extreme ends of the bisexuality continuum.

It's possible that if sexual attractions are programmed into us prenatally
through our genes, that there are also sexual revulsions also programmed
into us. A heterosexual female, for example, would find most features of
men attractive, but would find most features of women revulsive. A
mostly-hetero bisexual female on the other hand would find the same
features of a man attractive, but at the same time she may not be revulsed
by many of the features of women that did revulse the heterosexual woman.
Attractions and the lack of certain revulsions, could lead to a form of
bisexuality. Some people might even be full-on bisexual: attractions to
most features of men and women, and few revulsions.

>Are there similarly discrete "morphs" (analogous to butch and fem, etc.)
>amongst heteros?

It's there but we don't necessarily think of them as "morphs". I doubt gays
would call their own subgroups "morphs", just different styles. A butch
lesbian may only like other butch lesbians, while another butch lesbian
might like both fems and butches; it's just their own style. Certain
personality traits and looks are what style is all about.

Similarly within hetero communities, personality traits and looks play big
roles in attractions. For example, women like beards to different levels on
men. Some might prefer a rough-shaven look (a la Don Johnson in Miami Vice
days), others might like moustaches, others will like goatees, others will
like various stages of full beards, and others will prefer clean-shaven.
Then there are numerous personality traits in men that women like ranging
from sensitivity to aggressiveness. You'll see these women bypassing all of
the other styles and going towards their preferences.

Then there are various specialty styles that transcend sexual orientation
and affect all of them. We're talking about the fetishes here. One person
may get an orgasm only by getting whipped; but in another person, of the
same sexual orientation group, getting hurt will cause anything but an
orgasm. Admittedly an extreme example, but it illustrates a point about

Yousuf Khan

Yousuf J. Khan
Ottawa, Ont, Canada
Nation's capital