Re: Life Duty Death

Joseph Askew (
Mon, 11 Sep 1995 06:58:30 GMT

In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.950909065738.15710A-100000@Ra.MsState.Edu> "Marty G. Price" <mprice@Ra.MsState.Edu> writes:

>A gentleman named Joseph Askew (hope I remembered the spelling of your
>last name---offence not intended if I did not) replied with what I can
>only conclude were some very dumb statements. i.e.---we are now living
>better than ever.

Conclude away.

>Mr. Askew: the former Soviet Union is in a state of ecological collapse.

Really? They have some problems I will agree. But then the
system that made these problems is dead. You claim that is
not a great leap forward? Why?

>In their bureaucratic foolishness, its previous leaders created
>Chernopyl, leaking oil pipelines, open nuclear dumps,
>lakes-turning-to-deserts, .... (you get the idea);

And now this moronic evil system is gone. Thus the world
is a better place. The factories that caused these problems
are mostly closed down. Making the world a better place.
Just what is your objection to my claim?

>we in the West managed
>to fish out the greatest reservoir of ocean fish on the planet (the Grand

No we haven't actually. It took many nations with many of
the worst offenders being non-Western (the USSR for example)
and of course we have not fished it out. Only depleted it
so badly it is becoming pointless trying to fish them.

>if you want a list of a few of the species we've extinguished
>over the past few hundred years, pick up Farley Mowat's _Sea of
>Slaughter_. The death count will open your eyes, if the book does not
>make you physically ill (officially list that as the book I *could not
>read*. Made it about a quarter to half way through). I could go on.

I've seen long listed of species we have made extinct but so
what? We know know what we are doing. The first move of men
into the "New World" caused massive extinctions. The ones I
am most familiar with are the extinctions of the large marsupials
of Australia and the giant birds of New Zealand. The difference
is now we know how to avoid it. Since 1970 few species have become
extinct. The rate is dropping in the developed world.

>Twenty years ago, we in the *civilized* West probably hit the peak of our
>consumption/waste cycle.

So you claim. With what evidence I am not sure. None
I imagine.

>Increases in net comfort since have been
>because we're become (blessedly) more efficient in our use of the Earth's

Rubbish. We throw away more than ever.

>Signs, albeit modest, of scarcity of some items are visible,
>just as signs of our economic instability (the increasing homeless
>population, etc.) have become more visible. Some of these problems
>signal transition in our economy, not necessarily a bad thing if we react
>to them responsibly. Others, however, signal growing long-term problems.

What evidence of what items? What instability? The homeless
are a mental health problem. There is no evidence of any
long term problems outside the intellectual doom sayers.
This *is* a problem as the Soviet Union showed. When the
intellectuals of society cease to think properly and give
in to blank despair or stupid ideology millions die. I do
not think it is wise to give Greenpeace the chance that the
Bolsheviks got.

>The world faces twin problems: self-destructive over-consumption in the
>West; similarly destructive population pressures in the less-industrial

Rubbish. Neither is much of a problem.

>It's not a joke or a *plot*. It is not necessary to believe, as Swan
>does, that human life is approaching its end, to appreciate the
>seriousness of the problem.

It is neither a plot nor a joke. It is just nonsense.

>We must learn to live in harmony with the Earth, or we and our
>descendents will live lives that are increasingly short, ugly, and brutish.

You go off and play your silly little game then. I'll
go on living my life as I please. We will see who is
right in the end.