Re: If god exists, what created god?

Madhudvisa (
Tue, 09 May 1995 08:22:59 -0900

In article <>, you wrote:

> Please do not preach so much that you hide the truth that you do
> not understand. You are a pawn in life€s society and you need to find an
> answer. The reality is that humans are the only animals that ask the
> question, "Why are we here". The answer is EVOLUTION. Don€t find some
> fake belief, its the easy way out.

Yes humans are the animals able to ponder the more subtle questions
about our existence, that's the great value of human life. There is
evolution, but not the evolution you are talking about. There is an
evolution of consciousness. If you study the different species of life
you will find a continuum from simple single-cell organisms all the way
to the human form of life.

All living creatures share one thing in common - consciousness, but the
consciousness is covered to varying degrees. There is no difference in
quality between the living entity covered by a trees body and us. In
fact we "evolve" through 8,000,000 species of life to come to the human
platform. We may not have to take birth in every species, but still we
evolve from lower species of life to the human form.

If I have an animal's body I have very little independence. Animals are
forced to act according to their bodies. For example it is the nature
of a tiger to hunt and kill - he can't do anything else, he has no
independence so he is not doing anything wrong, it's his nature.

There is a difference, however, when we come to the human platform. In
the human form we have limited independence. We are not so strongly
bound by instincts. Of course we still have the animal instincts, we
eat, we sleep, we have sex and we defend ourselves - exactly what the
animals do. But we have the ability to question, as you have pointed
out, "Why?" This questioning is the symptom of a human being. Of course
there are many ways to go about answering the question and science is
one of them. So at least scientists who are actually endeavoring to
understand the universe around them are on the human platform. But I
fear many of them are not interested in the real answers. If the
rubbish I read on the news system in and sci.astro is
actually coming from scientists then science has degenerated into an
illogical belief system hell bent on proving there is no spiritual
component to life, that we are only chemicals, and that there is no
supreme control, no direction, no God.

This is not science this is sentiment. You have proudly and boldly
claimed "The answer is EVOLUTION. Don€t find some fake belief, its the
easy way out." But where is the substance of your belief. I know the
news system is full of ramblings about the "Big Bang" and evolution but
there is nothing substantial. Despite (probably many gigabytes of talk
by now) there is no clear idea of how the universe was created. The
best you can come up was it was not there then there was a "Big-Bang"
which came from nowhere, was caused by no one, and which somehow
magically created the ordered, structured universe with all the beauty
and diversity we see before us. Now science is supposed to be a process
of observation and experiment so you have conjectured this "Big-Bang"
theory - now do some experiments and prove it. You can make a
"Small-Bang" wit some dynamite, or even and atomic bomb if you must,
and create something substantial with it. If the universe can be
created with a "Big-Bang" then surely you can create a small town, or
failing that, at least a building with a "Small-Bang". Can't you see
the idea is completely unscientific? Unless you can prove it why preach
it? Why mislead the whole world and send everyone to hell by preaching
your illogical and dangerous ideas?

The motivation for your preaching is NOT science, it is NOT a search
for the truth, it is just to construct a philosophy which allows you to
live debauched hedonistic lives confident that, "I am just chemicals
and when the body is finished I am finished - so let me party to the
max now!" This is no better than the life of the animals. You are
trying to eradicate the one thing which separates us from the animals -
our ability to understand the spiritual, more subtle aspects of our

You want to explain everything in terms of chemicals but no one has
ever been able to show (and no one will ever be able to show) that by
mixing some chemicals consciousness can be created... It is blind faith
on your part. You are prepared to believe such nonsense when presented
by the scientists ONLY because it allows a godless world-view. A
mindset that enables me to do anything that "feels good" without
considering the consequences. If these theories had to be rigorously
tested no sane man could possibly accept them. There is no observation
and there are no experiments. Just mental speculation some vague
notions which have been formulated into quite a detailed religious
dogma by the scientific community.

And you can't prove it, you can't logically explain it. It all comes
down to blind faith. I have seen (in responses to my previous posts)
the type of mentality that characterizes mad sentimental fanatics. The
sort of thing I would expect from the born again christians and the
like. You don't read the posts. You don't consider the content. You
don't think about them. You don't consider questioning your own
belief-system. You just dive in there with either the standard
scientific dogma, or (more often it seems with me) you try to create a
smoke-screen, you post mindless nonsense or you pick some small
insignificant point and blow it out of proportion saying "Look at the
fool - isn't he stupid." This is not the sign of intelligence.

Krishna says:

manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye
yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah

"Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of
those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth."

So searching for the real meaning of life is not such a common thing...
Most people are happy with chasing women, some chase fame, profit,
adoration and distinction, but only a few are interested in spiritual
life. Maybe you aren't all that way inclined but there must be some
thoughtful scientists who are prepared to think independently from the
"accepted dogma".

Thank you. Hare Krishna.


Madhudvisah dasa Swami |
| S H E L T E R I N T E R N A T I O N A L

The mind is so strong that sometimes it overcomes the intelligence.