Re: Re^4: The Flat Earth? - Conclusion

Madhudvisah dasa Swami (
Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:32:17 GMT (Marcus C. Gottwald) wrote:

>Good Morning!

>I quote...
>('' (Madhudvisah dasa Swami) wrote this
>on the topic of "Re: Re^2: The Flat Earth? - Conclusion".)

>s> ...There are many things beyond our ability to see (for
>s> example what's outside the universe). We can never find out by the
>s> ascending process of science. The ONLY way we can know is if we can find
>s> an authority...

>I think that you can understand that I have trouble accepting
>this authority. As explained earlier, for the information in a
>telephone book, there is an easy explanation where it comes from.
>In a case like this, there isn't.

In a case like what? I am describing the principle, that is all. You can't
know what is outside the universe by your own observation and experiment.
It is not possible. The only way is to find an authority. You cannot argue
with this. Finding such an authority is a different thing altogether, but
if you can find someone who actually knows what's out there he can tell

>So what I should try, is to find someone who has an answer to
>everything that I want to know. That certainly causes trouble, if
>a scientific and a non-scientific person try to follow the same
>"master". And - what I personally don't like about it, is that
>there is no proof at all.

There is no such problem. A real spiritual master speaks the absolute
truth. It is equally valid and acceptable by scientific and non-scientific
persons. And the "proof of the pudding is in the eating." You can look at
the pudding from the outside as much as you like but you will never be
able to prove what the taste is like by this method. You have to eat it
first. So the proof of Krishna consciousness is practically experienced
when you actually put it into practice in your life.

>This master would have to be all-knowing.

NO. Only Krishna, God is all-knowing. You have to listen carefully. The
spiritual master does not present his own ideas or interpretations. He
presents the same knowledge his spiritual master presented to him, the
knowledge that has descended through the disciplic succession from
Krishna. The analogy is picking mangos. If there is a big mango tree and a
number of men on it in various places and if one picks the mangoes and
carefully passes them to the next man and so on until they gradually reach
the ground the mangoes will be fine. So that is the process. The spiritual
master presents the perfect knowledge coming to him from Krishna through
the disciplic succession.

>What I am asking myself
>here is why there are different views, different things taught by
>different, BUT ALL-KNOWING persons.

The real spiritual master doesn't present a different message, but he has
to speak in such a way that his audience can understand him and put his
teachings into practice. So you can see differences in the presentation
but the essence is the same.

>There has to be something,
>that is not known. And in a case like that, it is up to me to
>believe someone. And in exactly that position, I could be told
>basically anything. It is this fact, that I don't like. And I
>assume it is this fact, that so many people who are scientists
>don't follow the way of gaining knowledge that you are

No. The spiritual master presents a scientific process, an experiment if
you like, he describes how to perform the experiment and what the outcomes
will be. It is perfectly scientific. If you perform the experiment
properly you will get the predicted result. That is the scientific

>s> ...But intelligent,
>s> thoughtful people also surrender to a bona fide spiritual master to get
>s> real knowledge...
>Well, I wouldn't.

>s> If you find the Absolute Truth you will never have to stop believing in
>s> it. You will be completely satisfied with it. You don't have to change...
>O.k., just one thing: If you know the absolute truth, why haven't
>you told it to your friends and they have told it to someone else
>etc.? Where do _you_ (or the "master" you got it from) know it
>from, that this world's scientists don't know it?

Because most people have a reaction much like yours! "Well, I
wouldn't...". Mostly people are not interested but still it is the most
important thing.

>One more question I am interested in: Have you ever questioned
>anything you were told? I do not mean asking "But why?", but
>saying "No, that's wrong because...". And if yes, were you able
>to speak to your "master" about it?

Yes. You can ask any question. The answers are all there. It is not a
problem. There is no "blind following" it is a completely scientific
process. You just have to be prepared to try the experiment... that's all.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Thank you. Hare Krishna!

Madhudvisah dasa Swami

All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!