Re: Social Engineering (was: Different patriarchy Model)

whittet (
17 Jan 1995 17:04:02 GMT

In article <>, (Todd Michel McComb) says:
>In article <> Bob Casanova writes:
>>Excuse me for butting in, but I've been following this thread with interest
>>for a while, and I'm confused by your above post. To me, Gerold's position was
>>that rates of incarceration reflected "antisocial" (i.e., criminal or
>>predatory) behavior which wouldn't be tolerated in _any_ rational society, not
>>only in that of the present US, and that to correct the problem we need to
>>find the causes rather than continue to attempt to treat the symptoms and
>>assign "blame". This seems to me to be a reasonable and non-racist position;
>>can you explain why you (and others) find it otherwise? Thanks for any info.
>I will attempt to rephrase.
>Incarceration is determined by the standards of the dominant culture.

This is an interesting point. Recent studies have shown that behavior
is linked to the relative levels of two nerve hormones, nor-epinepherine
and serotonin. Low levels of both result in people who are barely
functional on a societal level.

Higher levels of nor-epinepherine result in people who are tentative
and indesicive, who look for security in adherence to laws. They follow
the norms, mores, conventions, rules, etc; generally looking
to build consensus for their actions before they act.

Higher levels of Serotonin result in people who are looking for Freedom
as a state of Being without limits; they are decisive people who tend to
"go for it", and could care less about the general consensus.

High levels of both result in what we think of as Sociopaths who tend to
make their own rules up as they go along.

The result is that the high nor-ephinepherine people tend to become
law makers whose laws, norms, mores, conventions, rules and values in
general, discriminate against the behavior of the other groups.

An example of a society with high norepinepherine qualities
might be Athens, and the high-serotonin attitudes and values
would then be exemplified by Sparta.

Most of the people incarcerated in institutions, other than those of
higher education, beaurocracy or marriage, would not be people from the
high nor-epinepherin group.

>Whether or not (all of) the behavior in question would be tolerated by
>"any rational society" and whether or not incarceration rates are
>affected by one's position with regard to the dominant culture (both
>debatable), the incarceration itself contributes to feelings of
>powerlessness and actually interacts in a complex way with the dynamics
>of that sub-culture.
>As such, using these rates as an "objective" standard is, in fact, not
>objective at all -- except in the sense that those in jail would
>presumably prefer not to be there (but prefer against *what*?).
>Pretending/believing in this objectivity adds to the resentment already
>I butted in only to speak about objectivity. I cannot say anything
>about racism, and I'll go on to say that in this day and age, I don't
>even know what "racism" is any more.
>Your statements about finding causes rather than blame sound
>reasonable, though this often leads merely to attempts to make members
>of a sub-culture more like those of the dominant culture -- the
>intentions of the original proponents aside. That's simple
>I hope this is more clear; my little boy interrupted me about a
>hundred times while I was trying to write it.
>T. M. McComb WWW