Mon, 23 Jan 95 13:58:02 PDT

> wrote:
> | According to the BELL CURVE Jews, collectively speaking, rank slightly
> | above the next highest group, i.e. orientals. There are certainly fewer
> | Jews than orientals, and while Japanese/Chinese cultures tend to emphasize
> | education, I've wondered if perhaps the selection pressures brought upon
> | Jews by way of persecution might have also contributed somewhat to
> | selecting people able to think/adapt quickly. ...

Gordon Fitch replied:
> If this were the case, one would also expect to see that
> selection pressures would have caused American Blacks to have
> been selected to think and adapt more quickly than Whites.
> And perhaps they do, but if so, it doesn't seem to show up
> on _The_Bell_Curve's_ "IQ" tests. Perhaps they had "IQ"
> tests in the shtetl, but not on the plantation? Somehow I
> missed that in my reading....

Relax Gordon, this was a speculation I had long before I read THE BELL CURVE
and has NOTHING to do with H&M, save their book caused me to recall it.

In any case, your point that oppression (I assume slavery) should have
given Blacks an edge over whites does not follow because you assume they
had equal genetic and cultural starting points. Slaves were generally
discouraged/forbidden from reading and writing. In fact there were often
severe penalites for teaching them to do so.

Jews on the other hand have long tradition that emphasizes, respects, reveres,
etc. learning and scholarship. E.g. the talmudic/torah-based traditions of
argument and reasoning that may be the roots of today's Jewish lawyer jokes.
My musing was merely what, if any, effect might come from the chronic,
multi-generational persecution of a group that is certainly culturally
disposed (and perhaps genetically as well if H&R are correct) for higher IQ.

The following two speculations/musings also came to mind:

1) How about comedy? If any form of entertainment requires being
mentally nimble and quick on one's feet with real-time audience
interaction, it's comedy. I doubt anyone could
compile a list of famous comics/comedians that wasn't dominated
by Jews in a manner WAY out of proportion to their actual numbers.

2) Where might the mean IQ for homosexual men fall? I would be willing
to bet that mean Gay IQ and income would be higher than those of Jews.
Are there any gay men out there who would care to comment on GAY IQ?
Is there any data out there on GAY IQ?