Re: Social Engineering (was: Different patriarchy Model)

Barbara Saunders (
Thu, 5 Jan 1995 23:48:17 GMT

In article <> (Gerold Firl) writes:
>In article <> (Richard Foy) writes:
>>You are also assuming that the dissolution of black culture is worse
>>than it is for whites in the same social/economic class. I am not
>>sure there is a significant difference.
>I have heard some amazing statistics on the rate of incarceration for black
>males; I( don't recall exactly what they were, but I think it was something
>like 1/3 of all black males do time (?!) Anyone with better data? This
>seems incredibly high, and I may be mistaken, but I do recall being very

And you dismiss out of hand the possibility that this is caused (at least
in part) by discriminatory law enforcement practices.

>surprised at the figures.
>I think that the incarceration rate disparity between blacks and other
>races in america is a good indication that black culture has been less
>successful at socialising individuals than other american racial
>subcultures. Of course, apologists will try to claim that this is due to
>raciual prejudice on the part of the police and the courts, but I think
>that any observer who is knowledgable about the vagaries of culture will
>recognise that american black culture has less internal safeguards against
>the adoption of the criminal lifestyle than others. For example, the
>congressional black caucus came out against the "three strikes" provisions
>in the 1994 crime bill, on the grounds that "there is already a crisis in
>the black family due to a shortage of father-figures". In other words,
>these black leaders see three-time convicted felons as valuable role-models
>which black culture can not afford to lose. This is an amazing point of
>view which I can not imagine existing in any other american subculture.
>This difference is significant.

In other words, they recognized (like many other "three strikes" opponents)
that small-time black (and other) drug users get excessive sentences and
that this doesn't benefit anyone in particular.

While there may be *some truth to the core of what you say, that American
black culture has developed along some maladapted lines in some ways,
your simplification of issues such as three strikes which have
really easy and obvious confounding factors, shows up your ulterior
pure racist motivations.