Re: Amerind an offensive term (was: Early Amerind assimilation
28 Aug 1996 06:15:31 GMT (Matt Silberstein) wrote:
>In sci.archaeology wrote:
>>>The American government owes significant moral, legal, and economic
>>>debt to the Native peoples. As a reasonable successful taxpayer I am
>>>fully prepared to pay that debt. I, as an individual, do not owe a
>>>moral debt to them. I do owe a moral debt to the righteous people who
>>>help people survive the holocaust. By extension I owe a debt to people
>>>who have help the Native peoples. Does than make sense?
>>Not a lick. It does sound self centered and absorbed, narrow
>>minded, hippocritical, divisive, monofocused (I just made that word
>>up) and down right ugly. If I understand you correctly I and
>>everyone else should go to our respective communities and support
>>only our individual struggles. The money we pay in taxes absolves
>>us of any additional actions of support or concern for others. Oh!
>>and we do not refer to each other by skin color because that may
>>offend and spot our character. Dum, dada, dum, da, dum, da, dum
>>can't buy that!
>My goodness! Let me try again. I have been misinterpreted and I did
>not say what you thought I said. Please try to work with me on this,
>because we are miscommunicating and that is causing difficulties. I
>owe a debt to people who, at the risk of their lives, tried to help
>others. I owe a debt because of their moral actions, not because they
>help my group. But you have to understand how that kind of debt is
>paid. I do not give them money, or help their family, I have to act
>morally to others. My concern for, and support for Native Americans
>(among other groups) is because others showed concern for me and mine.

I did misunderstand and apologize.

>The money I pay in taxes supports a different kind of debt. That was
>in response to the point that the American Government has broken
>treaties. They have and should pay back what they have taken.
>Personally I do not think I owe a specific moral debt to Native
>Americans. That is, I am not responsible for the damage. While your
>ancestors were being massacred in here, mine were having very similar
>treatment "there".

I don't agree with you on this one. BTW is sounds as though you
may think that I'm Native American. I'm not.
>>It may be that
>>>we are using different concepts of moral responsibility. Not
>>>contradictory, just different ideas.
>>Very different concepts. It amazes me how we can justify a dodge
>>and a side step of the truth. Your concept is yours to have but it
>>only adds to the hipporitical wasteland. We make so many recipes
>>for chicken salad, but is still tast like - well, you know. :-(
>Please tell me how I have side stepped the truth. I do not think I am
>being hypocritical. What is funny is that I am not denying that I have
>the responsibilities you claim, I am disputing how I "take" them. I do
>not owe because of the color of my skin. I do not owe because my
>ancestors did anything wrong. I do not owe because of my ethnic
>background*. I owe a responsibility as an American citizen. I owe a
>responsibility as a human being. I owe a responsibility as a person
>who happens to be doing fairly well. Once again I ask if this makes

Don't fall off your chair, but it does make part.

I can agree with you on the first part, however, the color of skin
in this country has been the determining factor between freedom,
slavery and oppression in the past and economic slavery and
oppression in the present, of course liberally sprinkled with the
word "opportunity". The color of skin means everything. From all
of the assortments of colors in this country which one color get
to have it ALL! White skin carries with it privilidges.
Privilidges with quite a bit of latitude that other colors do not
have and where did this privilidge come from? It came off the
backs of those other colors. I said before that the tree was
planted over 500 years ago and the fruit is here today. If your
skin color is white you get to pick the best fruit first and for
this privilidge a sense of moral obligation and debt should be
felt. I repeat, it makes no difference if ones ancestors came to
this country on the Mayflower or yesterday the privilidge is still
there for the taking. For any person with white skin to say no to
this fact I feel is ducking and dodging the truth in an effort to
absolve and ligitimize themselves from this responsibility.

>>>>The tree was planted over 500 years ago and the fruits are here
>>>>now for us to pluck but the Native American has to *shake* the
>>>>tree for theirs. Shame!
>>>>I was taught that the evil
>>>>>done to my ancestors gave me a special responsibility to not do evil
>>>>A lesson we can all learn from and thereby refer to the
>>>>indigenous people in a manor they deem appropriate!
>>>>To them not to is evil!
>>>Only a small part of the responsibility, but I agree.
>>Facing the wall, head up, arms stretched upward:
>>Paloma: "Am I talking to the wall"!
>I do not understand. I was saying that refering to people how they
>want to be refered is only one of many responsibilities. You don't
>think otherwise, so I don't understand your response. You are not
>talking to a wall because I am trying very hard to communicate with

This time it took.
>*I do not claim that my background absolves me of any responsibility.
>Just that my background does not bestow any specific responsibility
>for Native Americans on me.
>Verbing weirds language - W. W.

I don't quite understand this one. Are we splitting hairs?

"Don't worry about the changes in the key
just play with in the range of the idea"