Re: Patriarchy: Re: What Matriarchy?

Joel and Lynn Gazis-Sax (
Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:12:03 -0800

Let's remove this from alt.pagan.

Eric Brunner wrote:
> Bryant ( wrote:
> : In article <4ut553$>, Bryant <> wrote:
> : >In article <4uqedm$>,
> : >Eric Brunner <> wrote:
> : >>[says of Bryant:]
> : >>And the most recent author of moral relativity to settle Indian Land Claims.
> : >>Always a familiar foray, rarely well done.
> : How is poking fun at your apparently racist, inconsistent application of
> : the term "squatter" morally relativistic? Jeesh.
> You've had a couple of days to expand on this thesis, two lines is rather
> spare.

It was as I pointed out an aggressively phrased question, whose main purpose
was not to promote understanding and reconciliation (at least on the grounds
of agreeing to disagree), but to try to make a fool out of Eric.

I find it very hard to be nice about such rudeness when I see the same
tactic employed again and again. For quite some time, I've been frustrated
by the frequent derailing of interesting conversations by such hostility
or by remarks such as "You don't know anything about Science." This group
/could/ be an interesting clearing house for ideas -- which is the intention
of the USENET in the first place -- but instead, I find that it is mostly
an ego trip for some, possibly frustrated individuals. When Susan jumps
on one person in the debate and declares them unilaterally wrong, she is
not helping things in the least. In addition, her note might have been
better received if she had sent it to me by private email. I tend to
be nice towards people who want to work things out as long as there is
some attempt to understand where I was coming from. Susan has failed
so far as a mediator simply because her one response to me made me to
be the devil.

And having said this, I am put into the uncomfortable position of having
to stand by while others, now encouraged by Susan's marking, will take
this opportunity to flame me. Thanks for making me into the bad guy here

> : >>Oh. So he's also the current Chaos Theoritician. I see. Maybe he can explain
> : >>fractional dimensional Hausdorf space topology to me then, I can always use
> : >>an education.
> : No, he's (I've) never mentioned Chaos Theory.
> : My impression is that Joel's the Chaos buff, and that you've attributed
> : his quotes to me. There's been a lot of that, lately.

To stand back for a moment (and this is partly in answer to Susan who
has taken it upon herself to upbraid me while remaining silent on
the multitudinous nasty posts which get sent the way of Eric Brunner
and myself -- people who started out trying to be nice until we kept
running into the same stone walls over and over again), I'd like to point
out simply that when I saw Eric make this mistake, I immediately replied
and set the situation straight. If Eric finds any errors in my version
of chaos theory, I hope he will correct them. He knows that I will bow
to superior knowledge when it is civilly put.

> Fine. Clarity is sometimes lost in tangled threads, now please undertake
> to make your case, see previous posts for suggestions on frameworks you
> may care to employ.
> : Yep, Joel's misattributions, exaggerations, imagined discoveries of my
> : "inconsistencies" and his outright lies are a splendid example of the
> : clear, concise thinking you seem to admire, Eric. :(
> He makes mistakes, however on the balance, he's done more for this news
> group than against it.
> Thank you, Eric. Thanks for understanding. I know that I am a ragged
human being. I come to this group in part to refine my ideas in a crucible
of challenge. However, I often get abuse instead of bona fide challenge
and dismissed when I raise hard questions. (Which are hard for me, too.)

> : I think that if he were not aiming this silliness at me, you'd probably
> : be a little less impressed with his logical prowess. Give it a rest.
> I am concerned that he wrote that you'd posed as a member of faculty of
> UNM. Please clarify, I've requested this from you previously via mail.
> --
> Kitakitamatsinohpowaw,
> Eric Brunner

Again, Eric, thanks. I don't think I am a know-it-all, but I don't like
being called stupid either. Thanks again for being the one person to
see me as a human being.



___ ___
/\ _|_ /\ Joel and Lynn GAzis-SAx
/ /\_|_/\ \
/ / /\|/\ \ \
\ \ \/|\/ / / "If we try to flee from our human condition into
\ \/_|_\/ / the computer, we only meet ourselves there."
\/__|__\/ William Barrett