Re: Is white racism nec. all bad?

John Otteson (
18 Apr 1995 11:51:44 GMT

In article <3mu9rr$>, (Gary Strand) writes:
|> jo> John Otteson
|> gs> Gary Strand
|> Besides, the history of blacks in the US is not one of 400 years of unre-
|> lenting, virulent, widespread, violent racism on the part of whites. Do
|> you agree or disagree?

I think Ken Burns said it best when he said that one of the key definitions of
what America (USA) *is*, was the issue of Racism vs. Civil Rights. America
(including "White" America) has never been just racist. The progress that has
been made in this country on Race since the 1940s is remarkable (given how
painfully slowhuman progress has been throughout history). All Americans
(including "whites") should be most proud of what progress has been made.

However, There have been 400 years of continuous racial oppression in this
country. Slavery, sharecropping, and segregation. There is more work to
be done on racism.

|> jo> You have not answered the question as to why the communities were so fra-
|> gile.
|> You made that claim, not me. It's up to you to prove their fragility.

You made up a list of problems in the black community and then blamed them all
on Welfare. It is reasonable, I think, to ask you why the black community would
be so severly affected by such a historically brief period of federal generosity.

You compared (Post #9094) the black community to the Japanese-American community
since WW2. This was, I think, implying some problem with the black community.
What *did* you mean to imply with this comparison?

If you don't like the word "fragile" fine, give me another word. Then just
answer the question, please.

|> jo> Is it possible that the effects of 400 years of systematic racism might
|> linger? It seems ridiculous to assume that the effects would just disap-
|> pear over night.
|> I've made no such claim.

You certainly implied it. In your post #9094....

jo> has been systematically trying to break down the strength of the black
family and community for 400 years through slavery, sharecropping, seg-
regation, etc.

gs> The black family collapsed *after* those things ceased to exist.

You then went on to blame everything on the damn liberals.

|> jo> However, to blame all problems on Welfare is overly-simplistic.
|> Again, I never said that. It's *part* of the problem, just as white racism
|> is *part* of the problem.

My God!... Maybe this "discussion" was more than a useless bashing of egos. I
can actually agree with your last sentence. Common ground. Now, maybe someday,
we can get to the point where we can discuss white racism without just harping
on liberals and minorities.

|> gs> I don't believe blacks are entirely blameless victims here.
|> jo> What blame do you want to put on blacks?
|> Well, howzabout lack of fathers? Black-on-black fratricide?

Fatherhood being about Providing, Protecting and Nurturing. Tell me, what aspects
of Slavery, Sharecropping and Segregation(SS&S) allowed black men to take pride in
their ability to provide for their families needs? If, for 400 years, fathers are
thwarted in their efforts to provide for and to protect their families, it is going
to have an effect. We have it now.

|> ....Is it better to break a spine or believe someone doesn't have one?

A worthwhile philosophical question from the right!

|> gs> [E]ducation is the key to progress in this post-industrial age. Too bad
|> some people think getting an education is a white thang.
|> jo> Why does that unhealthy attitude exist? How did it develop?
|> I don't know, ask those who believe it.

You just said "some people think getting an education is a white thang", now
you want to deny that this attitude exists. Reconcile this for me, will ya?
And answer the question, please.