Re: Bipedalism and other factors and AAT

Drew Talley (
13 Jun 1995 02:53:04 GMT

Troy Kelley ( wrote:

: Yes, but I never said anything about the sea shore. Personnally, I think
: most
: of the aquatic phases took place in fresh water rivers, lakes and
: streams. It
: is possible that some swimming, diving, foraging did occur in the ocean,
: but this
: is not good drinking water, so there must have been fresh water nearby.

For example, an estuary?


: >
: >JM> Safe? From
: >JM> crocs and sharks we can't even see approaching? And which don't
: >JM> respond
: >JM> to human and chimpanzee threat displays (as big cats and other land
: >JM> predators do)?
: >
: >Tk> And besides that, I don't think crocodiles like salt water, in fact,
: I
: >Tk> know that they don't live in salt water.
: >

[existence of croc which swims in the ocean mentioned]

: The estuarian crocodile lives in ESTUARIES which are BRACKISH; or
: mixtures of some
: salt with but mostly fresh water. If these crocodiles are exposed to the

Okay, if I may enter in here again...while I know almost _nothing_
about anthropology, I find the lively debate here entertaining. On
the other hand, if your pronouncements about anthro are as informed
as those about crocs and estuaries, I think you'll have some trouble
defending the AAH.

First off, estuaries are indeed mixtures of salt and fresh water,
but to contend thaT they are "mostly fresh water" is simply wrong.
The salinity in an estuary changes both seasonally and tidally,
and can range from pure freshwater to pure saltwater depending
on depth, location, and phase of those temporal changes.

: kinds of
: salt levels found in the ocean for a long enough period of time, they
: will die.

Again, this is not true (depending on what you think qualifies as
a "long enough time". Certainly, as has been pointed out to you,
they can swim into the open ocean for miles...easily long enough to move
up the coast a bit and snack on an ape, where available.

As you point out below, none of this is terribly pivotal for the
argument at hand. What is odd is your willingness to state
with such certainty things which are simply not true, and which
a nominal amount of investigating would have informed you.

: Besides, crocodiles living in salt water, even though you seem to latch
: on to this
: issue rather quickly, is not the real issue for this news group. I was
: not
: implying that an aquatic environment was free from predators. I was
: merely
: pointing out that given our many physical deficiencies, which I am not
: going to
: list again, we must have evolved in a relatively safe environment. We
: may have

: >
: >Tk> Haven't you ever been to the beach?
: >Tk> Troy Kelley
: >
: >Yes, I have, but didn't swim or wade, due to the prevalence of shark
: >attacks in the area.

: Shark attacks kill fewer people than lightning does each year. You should
: have
: gone in the water. BTW, did you drive to the beach? That is much more
: dangerous
: that swimming in the ocean as well.

: >Jim Moore (
: >

: Troy Kelley