Let's Go Flying!!!

John Pastore (venture@CANCUN.RCE.COM.MX)
Mon, 27 May 1996 03:38:22 +0000

On 27 May 96 at 17:33, Clyde Davenport wrote:

> CD: Perhaps now that our human ordinary reality exists, in the
> future there will be traces that remain even if people die out.
> Traces of the dinosaurs still exist, of course. But at least my way
> of thinking about this would be to say that the ordinary reality of
> the dinosaurs would not be the same thing as the ordinary reality of
> humans. The ordinary reality of the dinosaurs would be based on
> their sensory proclivities and their own forms of sociality. Human
> ordinary reality is based on our sensory proclivities in addition to
> our vast store of cultural knowledge and our complex sense of social
> relations.

JP: A fly may see reality through a prismed eye making its "sensory
proclivities" different than that of a human, but reality remains the
same for both, as in both will avoid a fire --multifaceted or not.

> >>...The
> >> question, here, is then whether or not an animist world view can
> >> be related to shamanism or not. You see no connection...
> >JP: Of course there is a connection. There would be no shamanism if
> >there were no animism. I see no connection as to any belief systems
> >or creeds that might attach themselves as being required for
> >shamanism --though, as you have mentioned, there may be some help
> >for a shaman in that a belief system might embody knowledge on the
> >"rules" of the game so to speak.
> >>... so you can keep
> >> faith healing as separate (and also you point out the whole
> >> phenomenology of belief in fundamentalist Christian faith
> >> healing: if you believe in Jesus, you will be saved/healed!). I
> >> on the other hand do not see such a clear separation. Thus, I
> >> tend to interpret faith healing as a variant of the mediumistic
> >> kind of shamanism where spirits are called down into the body.
> >>
> >JP: Yet, shamanism requires no faith.
> CD: I think we need to clarify here what "belief" or "faith" is.
> What is its phenomenology? What is its origin? No doubt, all
> peoples have beliefs of one sort or another. And all peoples have
> ideas that imply for example a certain attitude is required when
> dealing with the numinous (though not exactly "faith"). Why is it
> that belief and faith become such important issues in the more
> historically recent organized religions? Is this perhaps not some
> kind of sociopolitical process stemming from the close
> identification between secular and spiritual power? Or are other
> factors involved?

JP: Faith is that which replaces empirical proof when one might want
to believe in the truth of anything, and empirical proof is not
available. Shamanism does not require belief, faith or proof, just
results --the kind of results which becomes less likely to occur when
chats veer off into tangents such as identification of secular and
spiritual power. Do you want to go flying, or not?


> >* Clyde, I'm going to invite a couple of people who I think might
> >be interested in learning how to astroproject --Tibetan Cave Hermit
> >style (no drugs required). I want to do an experiment: go flying
> >with some girl. Are you game?
> CD: Why not. I am not sure that my efforts will come to anything,
> but it is worth a try (it's good to keep an open mind, no?).

JP: Great!

Now we can do it Tibetan Cave Hermit Style. Anyone else who would
like to join the experiment is welcome. You don't have to register
because in a couple of weeks anyone who involves him or herself will
more than likely be making a rendezvous to learn who the rest are

Basically, the technique for flying or astro-projection is a form of
controlled dreaming. Tibetan Cave Hermits found it useful when
wanting to visit eachother from across wide valleys without having
to go through the laborious task of actually climbing down and up
mountainsides in only the best of weather. I think Mayan shaman of
the past might have been doing it too from atop one high pyramid to a
far distant one. There are certainly enough Mayans on certain
occasions with broken legs who seem to be trying from time to time

The technique can be realized within a week, two weeks at most, of
practice for anyone willing to maintain a mind free of any
intoxicating liquors or drugs, or even their hang-overs during the
experiment, and ultimate rendezvous.

Beginning now, you, myself, and anyone else should retire for the
night concentrating on the objective: controlling one's dreams. Upon
closing your eyes for the night concentrate on the thought that you
are, first, going to remember your dreams. Concentrating the mind's
eye on the red dot presented on the screen that is the back of your
eyelids is an important visual aid. Close your eyes now to see the
red dot of which I speak. If you don't see one immediately, imagine
one until you do.

The first three or four nights it will become progressively easier to
concentrate of the red dot to the exclusion of intrusive thoughts.
The only thought you want to carry into your sleep state is the
thought that you are going to remember your dreams. When distracting
thoughts occur simply concentrate on the red dot --make it grow, and
illuminate the entirety of the screen if need be. After several
nights this should be mastered, and you will, indeed, be remembering
your dreams upon waking up. Forget for now what those dreams may be
about, just concentrate on remembering them.

Once remembering your dreams is mastered, you can then start telling
yourself what it is that you want to dream about. In three to four
days, you will be doing that too.

So how do you astroproject? By telling yourself where you want to go
during your dream state. You may want to tell yourself that you want
to go visit some relatives in a distant city. You will, and you will
observe them from a vantage point while hovering overhead. You
archaeologists may want to observe Roman gladiators battling it out
in the Colloseum of Ancient Rome. You can. There can even be lions
there eating the Christians, and amazingly its no Cecil B. DeMille

For me the experiment is to see if a rendezvous can be achieved, and,
also, if flying into the future can occur. I'm therefore stating now,
so as to preserve the anonymity of the participants until that
fateful rendezvous, that on the night of 6/20/96 we dream about going
to the present of Mt.Washington, New Hampshire. How that may work
when the night of that date is day in Japan, means that those in
Japan may have to take an afternoon siesta. Your tough luck, if for
only we more eastern characters have to go to bed earlier.

One consideration must be made. Make sure that wherever you are, your
bedtime arrangements are safe. It would not be productive if you
worried about anything untowardly that could happen to your body
while stepping out for a fly. If you are sleeping with a mate, have
him or her join in or go sleep on a couch somewhere else. Remember,
you must feel comfortable and secure.

See you later...

Ka Xiik Keech Ya Utzil,

John Pastore
Writer/Guide in 'El Mayab'
("The Mayan Homeland")

"A teepee is a pyramid, isn't it?"