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Re: ANTHRO-L Digest - 10 Jul 1996 to 11 Jul 1996greg (bones@SIU.EDU)Fri, 12 Jul 1996 15:03:45 -0500
on your hands. It's only e-mail for crying-out-loud! At 12:03 AM 7/12/96 -0400, you wrote: >There are 14 messages totalling 587 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. mutilation and ritual (8) > 2. Moving to Vancouver > 3. Hairy chests sign of intelligence > 4. Interdisciplinary Campus Design > 5. !?! > 6. Mutilation and Ritual > 7. Big Reply 7 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:02:41 -0700 >From: mike shupp <ms44278@HUEY.CSUN.EDU> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Beth E. Kaminow wrote: > >> I guess I've ranted a tad but I just love thinking about this subject... >> _Beth > > > And I don't. > > Not meaning it as an attack, but as an observation. As a subject > of pressing personal interest, I find tattooing and piercing as > thrilling and absorbing as say fingernail clipping. Whereas you > and a large number of others "love thinking about it." Which > seems to boil down to love talking about it. > > Whatever the hell is going on here, "thinking" isn't it, I > conclude. The American culture is changing, and tattoing is > part of our future, for better or for worse, because enough > people want it to be. Well, okay, I suppose it's no worse > than bell bottom trousers, Elvis imitators, and those gold > chains everyone had to have on their necks in the 70's. > > But, sheesh! Isn't there a world out there full of Serious > Stuff to think about? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ms44278@huey.csun.edu > Mike Shupp > California State University, Northridge > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 15:25:46 +0900 >From: Naoko Matsumoto <naokolth@MBOX.NC.KYUSHU-U.AC.JP> >Subject: Moving to Vancouver > >Hello all, > >Please excuse me for sending such a mail here. >I am going to go to Vancouver at the end of August as a visiting scholar of UBC, >and I'd like to get information about renting a room, living expenses, >e-mail servers, >and so on in Vancouver, Canada. >I would be very grateful if someone could kindly help me for it. >I can also feel reassured if I could know someone who lives in Vancouver >beforehand. >I am a doctorate student majoring archaeology in Kyushu University, Japan. >Please send me a mail if you feel inclined to help me. > >Thank you very much. > >Naoko Matsumoto <naokolth@mbox.nc.kyushu-u.ac.jp> >Dept. of Archaeology >Faculty of Letter >Kyushu University >Japan > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 08:30:16 -0500 >From: Nedra Sue Davis <ndavis@VARUNA.ENG.LSU.EDU> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >On Jul 10, 10:02pm, mike shupp wrote: >> Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual >> On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Beth E. Kaminow wrote: >> >> > I guess I've ranted a tad but I just love thinking about this subject... >> > _Beth >> >> >> And I don't. >> >> Not meaning it as an attack, but as an observation. As a subject >> of pressing personal interest, I find tattooing and piercing as >> thrilling and absorbing as say fingernail clipping. Whereas you >> and a large number of others "love thinking about it." Which >> seems to boil down to love talking about it. >> >> Whatever the hell is going on here, "thinking" isn't it, I >> conclude. The American culture is changing, and tattoing is >> part of our future, for better or for worse, because enough >> people want it to be. Well, okay, I suppose it's no worse >> than bell bottom trousers, Elvis imitators, and those gold >> chains everyone had to have on their necks in the 70's. >> >> But, sheesh! Isn't there a world out there full of Serious >> Stuff to think about? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ms44278@huey.csun.edu >> Mike Shupp >> California State University, Northridge >>-- End of excerpt from mike shupp > >Mike - Not meaning it as an attack but as an observation: I'm not sure if you >have looked at your department's homepage, so here it is: > >Welcome to the CSUN Anthropology Department Homepage. > >What is Anthropology? > >Anthropology is the study of humankind everywhere, throughout time. >Anthropology involves the study of people, their origins, biological variations >and characteristics, their languages and *cultural patterns*, their social >structures and institutions, and their adaptation to their environment. >Anthropologists strive to create useful generalizations about people and their >behavior in hopes of bringing about the fullest possible understanding of human >diversity. > >Anthropology is unique among the social sciences because of its comprehensive >scope, unique methods, and particular focus on people from non-Western >societies. Due to its wide range of subject matter, anthropologists specialize >in one of four major subfields: > >Sociocultural Anthropology > >Sociocultural anthropology is the study of the cultures of living people or the >ways of life in contemporary societies. > >Mike - Researching Body Modification is an important part of Sociocultural >Anth. How we represent ourselves to public perception is an important part of >socialization. You might want to check out Irving Goffman's book on stigma, or >Robert Plant Armstrong's book on affecting presence. Anthropology should be >open to any cultural happening. It seems that "thinking about things" is what >academics is about. BTW - What is Serious Stuff? > >nedra >Louisiana State University >ndavis@varuna.eng.lsu.edu > >-- >Nedra Sue Davis PHONE: 504-388-6027 >3414 CEBA >BATON ROUGE,LA 70803 >ndavis@varuna.eng.lsu.edu > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:41:02 -0400 >From: Adrienne Dearmas <DearmasA@AOL.COM> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >In a message dated 96-07-09 14:54:55 EDT, abaron@STU.ATHABASCAU.CA (Arthur L. >Baron) writes: > >> However, I'm not yet prepared to commit to the permanence of the group by >> marking my body to display an abstract allegiance. > >I think throughout time there have been those who were felt the same. >However, I'm not sure options were available to circumvent the process >(within those cultures that body mutilations are mandatory). I know that >until women in countries that practice fgm have an alternative lifestyle >(education, employment) to turn to, fgm will persist. > >At one point there was a discussion about optional mutilation - choice. I'd >like to bring up the issue of child mutilations as opposed to adult. >Footbinding, cranial deformation, non-ritual circumcision, fgm, are all >examples of practices which were (are) performed on children. Footbinding and >cranial deformation must be done to the body as it grows. Now, rather than a >human rights issue, I see this as an expansion of the definition of self - >i.e. the group as self and making sure that the child is inducted properly >into the group with an identifying physical characteristic. Any thoughts? > >> >> Is the process of tattoo more Zen-like than the final product ... is it an >> ongoing process? > >Yes, but then not all tattoos are final products. They grow in size and >meaning and the process of it becoming a part of you and your body is >somewhat Zen-like, I think. > >- Adrienne >> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:39:24 -0400 >From: Adrienne Dearmas <DearmasA@AOL.COM> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >In a message dated 96-07-10 01:30:13 EDT, rs219@IDIR.NET (Robert Snower) >writes: > >> Here you are saying, far from its being inappropriate to generalize about >> individuals and their personal reasons, such variations are not >intriguing, >> since they have no pattern or reason, and it is the cross-cultural >> generalization that all cultures mutilate that you are interested in. >> >> I want to take it a step further. I don't think the cross-cultural >analysis >> will get us to a satisfying explanation of tattooing, or of mutilating. I >> think it is necessary to go cross-generational. It is intriguing that >> tattooing and mutilating are widespread, culturally, and it is even more >> intriguing that they are cross-generational. For the time dimension >allows >> us to ascribe a far greater significance to these phenomena than if we >limit >> ourselves to the present. The contemporary perspective is really not very >> substantive, is it? That prisoners, or the military, find solace in >> tattooing is not very substantive dimension of our society. Nor that the >> sub-culture indulges. Unless you believe the sub-culture is a nascent >trend >> that is about to take over. I am not of that persuasion. > >I almost want to say that comparing contemporary tattooing of prisoners as a >subculture of American culture and Maoris of the past who tattooed is like >apples and oranges. Now I'll admit I am in over my head here, but I'm going >to try and muddle. Time has not stood still and the circumstances which >affected Maoris then are not the same that affect Americans now. Perhaps if >we put every culture or subculture on a timeline of their own in terms of >development, we might see a trend. An engineer friend of mine wants to put my >research onto a 3D timeline which looks at the practice, where it occurs, >what the population numbers were/are, how long it lasted/lasts. I think that >the culture practicing the particular form of body mutilation has to be >examined at the time it is being done (if in the past, then as best as >possible based on oral history, primary source accounts, etc). Then each of >these cases can be compared and analyzed against each other. I realize this >is contradictory to what I first said. I sometimes wonder if a >Euroamericancentric bias prompts us to glorify "native" cultures and devalue >American "sub" cultures. Y'all are certainly giving me lots to think about! >> >> That your cross-cultural analysis needs bolstering from the past is >> indicated by another intriguing feature. Why is it generally true that so >> many of these phenomena are found not only in so many cultures, but that >> they are ALL found is in so many cultures? Thus, tattooing, circumcision, >> totemism, dietary taboos, menstrual taboos, mutilation, veneration of the >> dead, fear of ghosts--they are all usually represented. This variety >needs >> a theoretical unification. A lot of people have thought the way to get >at >> this problem is by a way of a reference to the past: to primeval >situations >> which revealed both the unity in these disparate parts, and the intensely >> significant social role they played. These people would include not only >> Harrison and Frazer, but Weston, Cornford, Gilbert Murray, Freud, Jung, >and >> most of all, Shapiro, in terms of sociobiology. Of Freud, one might note >> that he started out by referring everything to the infantile source, and >> ended up talking about "the infantile recurrence of totemism." > >There is no question that examining past practices is intrinsic to this >research and I apologize if I have created the impression that I was >excluding the past. Not so at all. I just think that tattooing today in >Americna subcultures may be just as vaild to the people who do it as the >tattoos of the Maoris 200 years ago. Maybe the fact that everyone had them >(Maoris), made them less meaningful. > >> This kind of thinking renders you, the military, prisoners, and the >> sub-culture anthropologically important not for the differences in the >> personal reasons each participates in tattooing, but because each is >> reenacting in his own way, in his own day, in his own cultural role, a >> critically important stage of social evolution, and thereby providing us >> with a clue to and a confirmation of its nature. > >I agree with you here (except that I don't believe the social evolution is >restricted to the individual reenaction but is more like a movement which >individuals particpate in which evolves into a something that is looked back >upon as social evolution) and you've reminded me of a point I wanted to make. >In the last 2-5 years, a very gradual shift has occurred in the piercing >community. Labretifery! Mostly confined to the ears so far, piercers have >taken to stretching the holes in their ears to accomodate larger and larger >gauge studs. This makes me wonder if labretifery as it is practiced in South >America and parts of Africa are vestiges of a cyclical phenomenon which began >who-knows-when with piercing and will we see labretifery become a prescence >in this industrial, far removed from nature culture we call American which >already accepts ear piercing in both sexes? >> >- Adrienne > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:41:25 -0400 >From: Adrienne Dearmas <DearmasA@AOL.COM> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >In a message dated 96-07-11 01:08:35 EDT, ms44278@HUEY.CSUN.EDU (mike shupp) >writes: > >> Whatever the hell is going on here, "thinking" isn't it, I >> conclude. The American culture is changing, and tattoing is >> part of our future, for better or for worse, because enough >> people want it to be. Well, okay, I suppose it's no worse >> than bell bottom trousers, Elvis imitators, and those gold >> chains everyone had to have on their necks in the 70's. >> > > But, sheesh! Isn't there a world out there full of Serious >> Stuff to think about? >> >Wow, Mike. I though I had mentioned that I had been conducting research on >this topic for over ten years, had a book contract, did my MA thesis on it >and was excited that for once, anthropologists were willing to discuss this >as a Serious Stuff. I assume there are many people on this list who feel as >you do, and they have chosen not to particpate in the discussion, but did not >insult those of us who do consider what we are discussing as thinking. I >think your post is insulting and extremely narrow minded. This too is meant >as an observation and not an attack. > >- Adrienne > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 11:39:11 -0400 >From: Ronald Kephart <rkephart@OSPREY.UNF.EDU> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >In message <960711104054_153639875@emout15.mail.aol.com> writes: > >> Wow, Mike. I though I had mentioned that I had been conducting research on >> this topic for over ten years, had a book contract, did my MA thesis on it >> and was excited that for once, anthropologists were willing to discuss this >> as a Serious Stuff. I assume there are many people on this list who feel as >> you do, and they have chosen not to particpate in the discussion, but did not >> insult those of us who do consider what we are discussing as thinking. I >> think your post is insulting and extremely narrow minded. This too is meant >> as an observation and not an attack. > >Adrienne, > >This is definitely Serious Stuff. Speaking for myself, my lack of participation >(until now!) in this thread says nothing about the Seriousness thereof. Any >symbolic behavior on the part of humans is worthy of anthropological study. > > >Ronald Kephart >Dept of Language & Literature >University of North Florida >Jacksonville, FL USA 32224-2645 >Phone: (904) 646-2580 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:08:00 -0700 >From: John Pastore <bwplacar@CANCUN.RCE.COM.MX> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >Adrienne Dearmas wrote: >> >> In a message dated 96-07-11 01:08:35 EDT, ms44278@HUEY.CSUN.EDU (mike shupp) >> writes: >> >> > Whatever the hell is going on here, "thinking" isn't it, I >> > conclude. > > >One of the biggest problems in science today is the biggest absurdity that exists: what >some scientists, often entrenched in influential positions, consider absurd, and worse, >the extent some will go to stifle (though I know that not to be Mike's intent)what they >consider absurd. > >I have found the subject both valid and appealing for, basically, two reasons: > >First, it shows a long-awaited objective for anthropology, which is to start expanding >anthropological studies to include more modern, and, possibly, more consequential, >cultural entities. > >Perhaps Mike would have thought the subject valid if it pertained itself only to >pre-primitive-moderns for example. > >Second, the subject, I believe, has generated one of the best written posts of the >summer, Holly Swyers piece on her informal observations. > >Well, that's my 10 cents. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 16:22:34 MDT >From: "Arthur L. Baron" <abaron@STU.ATHABASCAU.CA> >Subject: Re: mutilation and ritual > >> At one point there was a discussion about optional mutilation - choice. I'd >> like to bring up the issue of child mutilations as opposed to adult. >> Footbinding, cranial deformation, non-ritual circumcision, fgm, are all >> examples of practices which were (are) performed on children. Footbinding and >> cranial deformation must be done to the body as it grows. Now, rather than a >> human rights issue, I see this as an expansion of the definition of self - >> i.e. the group as self and making sure that the child is inducted properly >> into the group with an identifying physical characteristic. Any thoughts? >> >> - Adrienne >> > >> > >More Zen: The Inmates - When you first realize that you are surrounded by >crazy people, it may seem frightening. In a civilization of outpatients, >insanity can be viewed as the only defense. The planet Earth is your asylum; >take the opportunity to explore and enjoy your own craziness. > > >Anthropology sees insanity as being culturally defined. If a person is >marginalized from the dominant culture what advice would an anthropologist >give? Perhaps - find a culture that supports your belief system. If such a >culture doesn't exist, then join/start a sub-culture. Anthropologists, >according to Pirsig, found that schizophrenia is strongest among those whose >ties with the cultural traditions are weakest: drug users, intellectuals, >immigrants, students in their first year of college, soldiers recently >inducted. > >I don't disagree with what you say. Groups of all sizes and influences >certainly do seek inductees, though I often confuse induction with dogma. What >is the real difference between the physical deformations like cranial shaping >and psyche tattoos, the subtle and not so subtle symbols we view everyday? >Can't the same message get imparted? The group as self is a good description of >the illusion the bourgeois has of free will and choice. > >arthur baron > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:53:44 -0700 >From: John Pastore <bwplacar@CANCUN.RCE.COM.MX> >Subject: Hairy chests sign of intelligence > >Can't help but pass this one. From today's Mercury News: > > >> >> Hairy-chested men fed up with being written off as all brawn and no >> brains had the last laugh Thursday when a U.S. psychiatrist said >> that body hair was in fact a sign of greater intelligence. Research >> in the United States showed 45 percent of male university students >> had more than the average amount of body hair compared to less than >> 10 percent of the male population. For the full story see > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:04:37 -0700 >From: Bob Scarfo <scarfo@WSU.EDU> >Subject: Interdisciplinary Campus Design > >Interdisciplinary teaching, learning, research, and service to the >community, that is the premise for a design studio project that looks at >the master planning of a new urban campus in Spokane, Washington. If anyone >can suggest people, organizations, or readings that might help my students >and I to better understand, what I chose to call, the interdisciplinary >geography of education, I would appreciate your help. >I am a landscape architecture professor with Washing State University's >Interdisciplinary Design Institute (IDI) in Spokane. The architecture, >interior design, landscape architecture, and construction management senior >students come to Spokane for their senior year from the main campus in >Pullman. In interdisciplinary teams they work on actual projects drawn from >around the city. The IDI is currently housed in the second building of what >will become a 40+ acre campus set along the Spokane River. We have thus far >begun working on projects that involve public health, criminal justice, and >medical research as applied to the health of the public at the neighborhood >scale. >Our associations with nondesign professions, and the application of our work >to the benefit of the city's residents, has brought a unique request for my >students and I to apply the concept of interdisciplinary education to the >development of the new campus's master plan: the interior spaces, the >structures organization and layout, and the over all landscape planning. The >campus is primarily a graduate research school that services the public and >a spectrum of medical and other professional disciplines. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:19:09 -0700 >From: John Pastore <bwplacar@CANCUN.RCE.COM.MX> >Subject: !?! > >Whoops, here's another one, again from Mercury News: > >> A cat who may have been within a whisker of choking to death on his >> flea collar managed to call 911 for help from police. Tipper tried >> to slip his flea collar off while he was alone at home Wednesday. >> But the nine-month-old black and white cat only managed to work part >> of it into his mouth and began to choke. Tipper was able to knock a >> home telephone off its hook. He then stepped on the speed-dial >> button that his owner, Gail Curtis, had programmed to dial the 911 >> emergency number. Deputy Joe Bamford raced to Curtis' mobile home, >> found the cat on the floor and performed the emergency collar >> extraction. For the full story see > >Maybe this cat should see that psychologist? > >Smart enough to dial 911, after being dumb enough to swallow a flea >collar! Maybe it was a less than hairy-chested male cat. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 21:55:03 -0500 >From: Robert Snower <rs219@IDIR.NET> >Subject: Re: Mutilation and Ritual > >At 10:39 AM 7/11/96 -0400, Adrienne Dearmas wrote: >>In a message dated 96-07-10 01:30:13 EDT, rs219@IDIR.NET (Robert Snower) >>writes: >>>A lot of people have thought the way to get at this problem is by way of a >reference >>to the past: to primeval situations which revealed both the >unity in these disparate >>parts, and the intensely significant social role >they played. These people would >>include not only Harrison and Frazer but >Weston, Cornford, Gilbert Murray, Freud, >>Jung, and most of all Shapiro, in >terms of sociobiology. Of Freud, one might note >>that he started out by >referring everything to the infantile source, and ended up >>talking about >"the infantile recurrence of totemism." > >Adrienne says: > >>I almost want to say that comparing contemporary tattooing of prisoners as a >>subculture of American culture and Maoris of the past who tattooed is like >>apples and oranges. Now I'll admit I am in over my head here, but I'm going >>>research and I apologize if I have created the impression that I was >>excluding the past. Not so at all. I just think that tattooing today in >>Americna subcultures may be just as vaild to the people who do it as the >>tattoos of the Maoris 200 years ago. Maybe the fact that everyone had them >>(Maoris), made them less meaningful. > >I say: > >We have entirely different time frames in mind. My Harrison quote referred >to tattooing which was taking place some 3000 years ago. The "totemic >system" she was alluding to was a conjecture of what may have prevailed >perhaps 30,000 years ago. She is saying, and Freud and Shapiro are saying, >that the "primeval situations which revealed both the unity and intensely >significant social role" of mutilations, etc. are older still. They were >necessary components in the creation of society among a species which was >not biologically adapted to socialization. Back to basics: evolution is >driven by sexual competition. This is the method of Natural Selection. >Nothing else. On the other hand, sexually driven competition is anathema to >socialization, rendering it literally impossible, in the absence of >controlling factors, because it renders the cooperation essential to >division and specialization of labor impossible. Mammals are not very >social creatures (Wilson), but, except for Homo sapiens, at least they have >the biological control of a seasonal mating which leaves them uninterested >for much of the time. Not Homo sapiens. Yet Homo sapiens succeeded in a >degree of socialization which, in differentiation and specialization of >labor, is rivaled only by some insects. How? Not the biological way the >insects managed it, but by cultural devices. Mutilation was, on the >evidence--which you are collecting, and others have collected--a component >of this cultural trauma, and trauma it undoubtedly was, leaving many >vestiges today, and yesterday, e.g., Catherine of Siena practised asceticism >since the age of seven, and dedicated her virginity to Christ. Her >betrothal was confirmed, she wrote, "not with a ring of silver but with a >ring of his holy flesh, for when he was circumcized just such a ring was >taken from his holy body.". . . "his eyes, his ears, his beard ran with >blood; his jaw distended, his mouth open, his tongue swollen with blood; his >jaw distended, his mouth open, his tongue swollen with blood. His stomach >was pulled in so that it touched his spine as if he had no more intestines." >Catherine . . . hardly ever spoke of . . . her bridegroom without mentioning >blood. . . . Sangue was in every sentence; sangue and dolce (blood and >sweet) were her favorite words. (Tuchman 1978) > >R. Snower rs219@idir.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 20:58:46 -0700 >From: mike shupp <ms44278@HUEY.CSUN.EDU> >Subject: Re: Big Reply 7 > >On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, Clyde Davenport wrote: > >> Francis Bacon (1561-1626) states that the underlying >> purpose of experimentation is "natura vexata," to annoy >> or vex nature so that it reveals its secrets. He also directly >> compares the role of the experimentor to the role of the >> inquisitor who tortures his victims.... > >> The question here is in evaluating Bacon's role in the >> development of science. How influential was he? Also >> to what extent did others share his view of the nature >> of experimentation. > > Hard to say. Bacon's ideas about scientific method were dogma in >high school science texts of the 1950's. I don't know about today. > > From observation, working scientists are not much interested in >philosophy, at least on a day to day basis. Einstein and Percy Bridgeman >and Schroedinger, etc., are pretty rare beasts. > The argument has been made, though, that Bacon had enormous >influence, because most educated people after 1700 or so thought that >Isaac Newton had developed his theory of gravity through Baconian >induction. And that David Hume's assault on unnamed believers in >induction in his ESSAY had to be delicately worded because he was >attacking a pair of English icons. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ms44278@huey.csun.edu > Mike Shupp > California State University, Northridge > >------------------------------ > >End of ANTHRO-L Digest - 10 Jul 1996 to 11 Jul 1996 >*************************************************** >
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